Topic: How can you make tawasul by the prophet.

[akhi]

Basically plain and simple, mohammed sallahu alahi wa salam is no longer with us and is going through what every man shall experience the after life. He no longer hears us, it is reported in an authentic narration in al bukhari that Aisha (raa) said the prophet said allah said "verily you cannot make the dead hear (ie benefit them) nor can you make the deaf hear (which is also in sura 27:80). Which is true we cannot make the dead hear and even ar rasuul. And i ask how do you believe the prophet can hear you when he himself is dead. Tawasul is done when the prophet is alive and it would be foolish to think otherwise. Although he is our beloved brother and prophet he is still a human being made from the same materials as us. Everything he done was from the will of Allah and not his own, if you feel you need something ask Allah for HE can hear everything what is in your hearts and what you concile. Seek Allah and be patient and dont grow impatient. Its almost like you people feel your unworthy to seek in Allahs bounty and forgiveness (sabhaan allah). It is an innovation to believe this because the prophet never asked isa or musa or anbody that was dead for aid nor did the sahabas do the same. I also ask, can you ask your dead relatives for things? no because its regarded as shirk seeking in other than Allah. When the prophet performed miracules was to make peoples deen strong and iman to go high. I would like somebody to give me reference to this tawasul after the death of a prothet so i may go and find the book in which this is written and read for myself. dont send me links to these so called books because the internet has many many lies simply the reference name and page.I urge the muslims to not take this tool as a means as your ullama. If i've offended any of you then please forgive me becuase that wasnt my intention wallahu ya'lam

[samsparky]

The Prophet sallallaahu 3alayhi wa sallam said:

?? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ?

Related by al-Baz-zaar ?

This Hadeeth is a proof that the Prophet benefits after his death. Our deeds are presented to him - if he sees good he praises Allaah and if he sees bad he asks forgiveness from Allaah for those Muslims.


Al Bukhari and Muslim reported from Anas and he reported:

‘When a person is put in his grave and his friends leave him he hears their soles as they leave..."


As we all know, Qur'aan & Sunnah agree with each other and are not against each other. So what is the actual meaning of the Verse you mentioned in your post?


Actually it likens the blasphemers to deaf people because they do not benefit from what they hear. It actually does not mean that the dead people can't hear otherwise when we visit the grave we would not say: "assalaamu 3alaikom ahl alquboor".


al-Qurtubiyy in his tafseer said:

?? ? ? ? ?? ?? .

which means the part of the Verse ?? ? (which you wrongly took literally) actually refers to the blasphemers. It likens them to dead people.

It was also said: This Verse refers to those blasphemers who would not believe.

? ? ? ? ?? ?? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? .

when those blasphemers are called to the good, they refuse.

[samsparky]

Imaam Abu al-Wafaa? ibn ^Aqeel al-Hanbaliyy (who is one of the pillars- as they say- of the Hanbaliyy school of thought) said that among what is liked to say when visiting the Prophet?s grave is what means:

?O Allaah, You said in Your Book to Your Prophet:
 

? ?? ?? ? ? ? ??

(Verse 64, Surat an-Nisaa? means: {If only, when they are unjust to themselves, they come to you and ask Allaah for forgiveness, and the Messenger asks forgiveness for them, they will find that Allaah is Forgiving and Most Merciful.}) and I have come to Your Prophet repented and asking for Your forgiveness, so I ask You to forgive me as You gave forgiveness to those who came to Your Prophet during his lifetime. O Allaah, I direct myself to You by Your Prophet Sallallaahu 3alayhi wa sallam, the Prophet of mercy, O Prophet of Allaah, I direct myself by you to my Lord for Him to forgive my sins.?


Al-Bayhaqiyy narrated with a SaHeeH chain from Maalik ad-Daar (a trustworthy person appointed by ^Umar during his caliphate) that he said what means:

?There was a drought (for 9 months) in the time of the caliphate of ^Umar. A man from the companions came to the grave of the Prophet Sallallaahu 3alayhi wa sallam and said: ((O Prophet of Allaah, ask rain for your nation for they are in ruins)). That companion saw the Prophet in his dream saying to him what means: ((Send my salaam to ^Umar and tell him that it will rain and tell him to try his best to serve the nation.)) The companion went to ^Umar and told him. ^Umar cried and said what means: ((O Allaah, I will not fall short in trying to serve the nation.))?

This companion was said to be Bilaal ibn al-Haarith al-Muzaniyy.


The caliph al-Mansoor when he made Pilgrimage and visited the Prophet asked Imaam Maalik ((O father of ^Abdillaah, should I face the Quiblah and supplicate or should I face the Prophet of Allaah Sallallaahu 3alayhi wa sallam?)). Imaam Maalik said: ?And why would you not face him when he is the one you ask Allaah by and the one your father Adam ^alayhis-salaam asked Allaah by? Face him and seek his intercession and Allaah will allow him to intercede.?

This was mentioned by Qaadee ^IyaaD in the book ?Ash-shifaa?.


Asking Allaah by the Prophet = seeking to gain benefit or alleviate harm, from Allaah, by mentioning a Prophet in honour of the mentioned, with the firm belief that Allaah is the Creator of benefit and harm.

In the Hadeeth related by al-Bukhaariyy in al-Adab al-Mufrad: when Ibn ^Umar?s leg became paralysed, in his call for help he said: ?O MuHammad.? His call was answered with a cure. 

[samsparky]

Please ask for which ones you want the page number if you can't find it without it.

And welcome to the forum, the place of authentic proofs.

Please do get back to us about whether or not you are able to find those proofs that are mentioned

[suha]

i would love to remind everyon here and all guest and new memeber not to speak without proper knowledge

Barak Allah feeki sis very well done

[akhi]

the saying of the Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) to his daughter, the myrtle of his heart: "O Faatimah!... I can avail you nothing from Allaah." and his (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) saying: "When a man dies his actions cease except for three: recurring charity, knowledge which he imparted and a son which supplicates for him."

To say this doesnt include the prophet would say you believe he is not a man, which alhamdullilah he is. Every man when they die only have those 3 things that recur. Yes i am certain with knowledge that we can here the footsteps of the last remaining people as they walk away from our graves, but to say you can kneel down by the prophet grave and ask of things is a highly different matter because the pagans say the same thing concerning there beliefs. take the christians, they say we seek in god through jesus and the qurashi tribe done the same thing and so on.

If there had not been in the Qur'aan and the Sunnah proof of the impermissibility of seeking nearness to Allaah through the prophets and the righteous except that of Umar Ibn Al-Khattaab when he requested his uncle, Al-'Abbaas, to supplicate for the Muslims and abandoned Tawassul through the Messenger (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) , it would be enough as a refutation against this group. How excellent is what Imaam Abu Haneefah said (rh): And I detest that Allaah should be asked (for something) except by Allaah (i.e. directly)ias occurs in Durr ul-Mukhtaar and other books of the Hanafees.

I have many more info if you would like, and before i go i would like to stress this isnt a battle of whos right and wrong but mere debate of this matter.

I couldnt help but wonder if the massage by suha was refering to me.

[Martin]

Another pro-wahhabi stirring it all up, and bringing up Imam Abu Hanifa to make more confusion.

[akhi]

First of all do not call me a wahabi for i follow Arasullilah upon the understanding of the salaf. I do not follow Arasul upon the understanding of Abdul wahab or abu hanifa malik hanbel or shafi'e i follow what is sahih. I do not limit myself to anything but the true path of arasulillah. I'm very curious to know what manhaj this website is under. I would like you Martin to apologize for labling me.

[samsparky]

Once again, you have misinterpreted the Hadeeth.

Read this Hadeeth:

The Prophet sallallaahu 3alayhi wa sallam said:

?? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ? ? ?? ?? ?

Related by al-Baz-zaar ?

This Hadeeth is a proof that the Prophet benefits after his death. Our deeds are presented to him - if he sees good he praises Allaah and if he sees bad he asks forgiveness from Allaah for those Muslims.


Now, in the light of what has been mentioned by the Prophet, the Hadeeth narrated by al-Bukhaariyy which means: <<When the Muslim son of Adam dies, his deeds stop except for three: a charity resulting in a continuing benefit, knowledge benefitting others, and a pious offspring making supplication to Allaah for him. >>

Here, "his deeds stop" means what he is accountable for. e.g. the rewards of his deeds stop.

Let me ask you, is "pious offspring making supplication for him"  the dead person's deed? No.

Why does it say "his deeds stop except for 3"? Obviously because "his deeds stop" means what he is accountable for and not whether or not he is able to make du^aa' to benefit the people who are alive.

Please do not be hasty to forget the Hadeeth of the Prophet I mentioned above in which he mentioned that he supplicates for the Muslims after his death when their deeds are presented to him if he sees that they are bad.

As for what you claim to be the meaning of Abu Haneefah's saying, I will check whether or not you have misinterpreted again. Can you actually put the Arabic text here at least because I have a feeling that the real meaning is about not making supplication to other than Allaah.

[samsparky]

As for your mention of ^Umar

I would like to enlighten you that the narration is as follows and is used to prove the permissibility of asking Allaah by the righteous Muslims:

It is narrated in the Hadeeth related by al-Bukhaariyy, that during his caliphate in the year of the drought, ^Umar asked Allaah for rain by al-^Abbaas saying: <<O Allaah, we ask You by the uncle of our Prophet. >>

(?? ?? ? ??)

And don't forget what I already mentioned about ^Umar:

Al-Bayhaqiyy narrated with a SaHeeH chain from Maalik ad-Daar (a trustworthy person appointed by ^Umar during his caliphate) that he said what means:

?There was a drought (for 9 months) in the time of the caliphate of ^Umar. A man from the companions came to the grave of the Prophet Sallallaahu 3alayhi wa sallam and said: ((O Prophet of Allaah, ask rain for your nation for they are in ruins)). That companion saw the Prophet in his dream saying to him what means: ((Send my salaam to ^Umar and tell him that it will rain and tell him to try his best to serve the nation.)) The companion went to ^Umar and told him. ^Umar cried and said what means: ((O Allaah, I will not fall short in trying to serve the nation.))?

This companion was said to be Bilaal ibn al-Haarith al-Muzaniyy.