Topic: Compulsion in Religion?

[hassanradwan]

Salams All

I haven't been here for a long time. The last time I came I had a long and baffling discussion about Wahhabis and the meaning of "Istawa"

But the most shocking question that came up - and was never answered - was whether Islam commands us to force people to become Muslim.

***************
Is that correct?

Simple answer please!

No more obscuring the issue and hiding behind the Arabic Language please.

Hassan

[samsparky]

In the Arabic language istawa can have 15 meanings.

You can find that in the dictionary.

For the second point:

In the Qur'aan in Surat Al-Zomar ayah 7 Allaah says:
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which means Allaah does not Order His slaves with blasphemy.

And from amongst the Prophet's names is "almaaHee" which means he came to get rid of blasphemy.

[hassanradwan]

Salams samaparky,

1) I am well aware that "Istawa" has many meanings in the dictionary. Perhaps I should make my question a little clearer.

What is the meaning of "Istawa" in this verse?

 (20:5)


2) Thank you for telling me that Allah does not order blasphemy and that the prophet has been ordered to get rid of blasphemy.

But my question is Does Allah order us to convert people by force - to Islam?


3) Why did you remove part of my post?

Thank you Hassan

[samsparky]

1) Imam Hafidh Ibn Rajab al-Hambaliyy explained the meaning of istiwa' as istila', which means subjugating.

That is, Allah attributed Himself with subjugating the ^Arsh in eternity (the status of existing without a beginning, that is, before creating the creation).

Since the ^Arsh, the largest creation of Allah, is subjugated to Allah, then everything else which is smaller than the ^Arsh is under the control of Allah.

2) The Prophet said what means "umirtu an uqaatil an-naas 7at-taa yash-hadoo an laa ilaaha illallaah wa annee rasoolullaah"

That is a mutawaatir Hadeeth. That means very strong.

3) Because you misunderstood the Verse.

[hassanradwan]

Thank you

1) Imam Hafidh Ibn Rajab al-Hambaliyy explained the meaning of istiwa' as istila', which means subjugating.

That is, Allah attributed Himself with subjugating the ^Arsh in eternity (the status of existing without a beginning, that is, before creating the creation).

Since the ^Arsh, the largest creation of Allah, is subjugated to Allah, then everything else which is smaller than the ^Arsh is under the control of Allah.

2) The Prophet said what means "umirtu an uqaatil an-naas 7at-taa yash-hadoo an laa ilaaha illallaah wa annee rasoolullaah"

That is a mutawaatir Hadeeth. That means very strong.

3) Because you misunderstood the Verse.

[hassanradwan]

Thank you

1) istawa 3alal 3arsh Means "Allah subjugated the throne" Thank you. What does that mean?

2) Is this forum only for those who can understand Arabic?

Could you tell me what "umirtu an uqaatil an-naas 7at-taa yash-hadoo an laa ilaaha illallaah wa annee rasoolullaah" means in English?

3) Please could you give me the 'correct' meaning of the verse "La Ikraha fi deen" please.

Hassan

[hassanradwan]

ps - what is with all the editing out of translations from the Qur'an? Don't you allow anyone to quote a translation of the Qur'an? Why?

[samsparky]

1) ar-RaHmaanu 3alal 3arshistawaa

Allah attributed Himself with subjugating the ^Arsh in eternity. Subjugating in eternity means that the ^Arsh is under Allaah's Power even before creating it.

2) The Hadeeth means that the Prophet was ordered to fight the people so they would declare that no one is God except Allaah & that MuHammad is the Messenger of Allaah.

That doesn't mean that every single aproach of Prophet MuHammad was one of war. Prophet MuHammad was wise in bringing the people to Islaam and if Allaah ordered him to fight then he would.

3) I have no reference for that - so I'm waiting for hadi, advisor or captain to take that one.

--- for your last point:

It is not allowed make a Qur'aan in a different language to Arabic. What a person is allowed to do is translate the meaning. Translating the Verse will cause you to lose meaning. For example "alif laam meem" is NOT " 'a' 'l' 'm' " 

[hassanradwan]

2) The Hadeeth means that the Prophet was ordered to fight the people so they would declare that no one is God except Allaah & that MuHammad is the Messenger of Allaah.

That doesn't mean that every single aproach of Prophet MuHammad was one of war. Prophet MuHammad was wise in bringing the people to Islaam and if Allaah ordered him to fight then he would.

Are you saying then that a Muslim cannot live in complete peace with a non-Muslim because as Muslims we must always be trying to convert non-Muslims - either by peaceful or violent means?

3) I have no reference for that - so I'm waiting for hadi, advisor or captain to take that one.

Aren't you allowed to quote one of the well know translations of the meaning i.e. Yusuf Ali, Pickthall, Shakir as are used by the vast majority of Muslims world-wide for example as is found on the Muslim Students Association web site

Do you follow some strange sect that is different from the majority of Muslims world wide that use such translations?

Do you have to refer everything to your "Captain"?

Who is your "Captain"?

What a person is allowed to do is translate the meaning.

I don't understand? You seem to contradict yourself?

If we CAN translate the meaning then why did you delete the translations of the meanings I gave? I don't understand?

Or do you only approve certain translations?

Which ones do you approve of?

Is Yusuf Ali ok?

Pickthall?

Shakir?

Muhammad Asad?

[samsparky]

You should know that there is such thing as a thimmiyy when there is a caliph. The Muslim always loves for the non-Muslim to be saved from hellfire by embracing Islam even when he is not fighting him trying to save him from everlasting hellfire.


Have you heard of the book "mistakes of yusuf ali"?

The mainstream of Muslims do not get their knowledge of Qur'aan through reading books on their own, rather they get knowledge from the ones who have knowledge who learnt from the scholars who learnt from the scholars who learnt from the scholars all the way to the Companions & the Prophet.

Such word to word translations of the likes of people like yusuf ali often give an incorrect meaning to the reader.