first of all I find it strange that you accept the testemony of one person (mohammed)above the testemony of about 45 persons (like prophets)(the bible books).
Muhammad was backed by miracles. And thats why we beleive him over any narration that contradict what he said.
And we don't beleive there were Prophets between Jesus and Mohammad, just a note.
One person is more influensial, then 45 persons
Stop making it look like it's his word against the word of other Prophets, Between Mohammad and Jesus there was more than 500 years.
Did you ever read the bible? I read a small portion of the Koran.
No I didn't and I won't. Quraan tells us some of the things in it(fabricated bible that is) and some of what was in the original.
The true ingil and tawrat are elevated to the sky, what is the use than and the point and where is it now?who had acces to the first one and what is left of it? What about scriptures older than 7000years? they don't count?
Crescent answered those questions in his text
The truth Injil has been elevated to the sky ( Allah willed that )
this means simply it doesn't exist on earth in it's original form(neither in written nor in memorized form). but since it's a heavenly book it exists in heavens (heaven=arabic "Sama^") namly the seventh heaven in the Preserved board)
You talk about orginal ingil and tawrat, while the christian leaders in the year 300 after Christ fixed the books(testemonies, manusripts) wich where trustworthy and authentic in a concilie. After that the text is NEVER changed(the scriptures are still in archieves and copies can be look in).
Actually thoes - I think- are the very people who deviated from Islam. There is a group in history that is said to be a christian group. but it's beleifs and actions(namly abulation and prayer) resembles the Islamic teachings almost to the letter
By the way the last chapter of the bible says that if anyone adds to this canon(scriptures) he will be cursed.
I beleive that this one survived the major fabrication and it possibly exsisted in the original injil in meaning.
It's only in about 500 after Christ that Mohammed came with the Koran that he claims to have received from God.
I have read that islam theologians agree that when mohammed received a 'revelation' he fell on the ground started shaking and behave like someone mad.
Whoo! careful you are crossing a red line. Beliteling our Prophet will not tolerated read the TAI Rules.
But to explain it He DID NOT act like a mad man. he used to shake, and cold sweet emerged from his skin. He asked for a cover so the shaking bit is out of cold NOT MADNESS. Bottom line: is Receiving thoes revelations from the Angel Jiibril was not a simple thing. and all Prophets go thru that.
Then he claimed that he received a revelation from God. This could be God...but can also be the adversery of God, not?
Miracles are a way of knowing that these are no fabrications. And if you mean by the term "Adversary of God" The Devil. Thats a huge difference between Islam and other releigons. See christianity tend to raise The devil to level of another god. by claiming that he can do things that Allah can also do. and that Allah is responsible for paradise, and he is responsible for hell. You see the devil is a cursed creature that Allah willed he live until the Judgment day. and then he dies a blasphemer and spends eternity in hell. He tries to lure people to deviat from the path of righteousness.
when God speaks thrue His profets about a throne or his hands, sitting or any other physical characteristics then is this (generally understood) spritually meant, to make himself understandeble to normal simpel man, offcourse it is impossible to describe his majesty, greatness, awsemnessand work in an other way
one by one.
The throne is a big Entity above the seventh heaven. And it's the biggest of Allah's creation it was NOT meant as a sitting place for Allah for as I said Earlier Allah needs non of His creation and He Existed before place without a Place and Exists now Without a place for change is impossible to happen to his self.
"Hands": in Arabic sometimes they use the term "Yad" for something other than the limb. So it depends upon the context, but it was never used in Quraan as the meaning of an actual limb or organ.
Sitting was never attributed to Allah in Quraan.
as for "spiritually meant" I don't get it, siting is siting what can it piritually mean and Allah is not a spirit and doesn't need a spirit or a soul.
As for describing Allah we describe him as he describes himeself nothing more nothing Less.
anastasis said:
What Jesus concerns: because the father's Holy Spirit lived in Him fully, he can be concerned as God.
You see thats imposible: First you call God a father which is absolutly impossible how can God be a father and a creator at the same time.
father means that a part of him split and formed another entity with common properties so now you have 2 Gods. which is imposible.
then you said "Holy spirit" In Islam that is the Angel Jibril. in Christianity it seems to be a part of what they call God, that if it "lived" inside something it's considered by them a "god"
then he said:
Who else can do wonders as he did: heal sick, raise the dead, written down by eyewitnesses and even opponents of Him.
Do you beleive Allah is not capable of doing all thoes things unless he does what U claimed did? Which is BTW intellectually impossible.
then He said:
How can you say that Jesus was a Muslim, it is obvious out of scriptures much older than the Koran that Jesus was a jew coming from a jewish father and mother from the family line of David, Saul, Salomon and for that from abraham.
Actually Jesus has no father, He was created without a father Just like Adam was created without parents. and creating Jesus without a father is not a hard task for Allah the almighty.
and David, Salmon and Abraham were all Muslims. AND PLEASE stop confiusing Ethnic groups and Releigeouse groups. This is becoming fraustrating I explained it in my first reply. When Mohammad peace be upon him asked the jews in Hijaz to follow him some of them did. What do you call these now?
Also a black man from Africa did and a Roman Man and Persian man. they were all Muslims.
the grandson of Abraham is called by an angel of God "Israel" this was the beginning of the history of God with his chosen people the israelites!
Yes, Ya^koub(Jacob) son of Is^hak(Isaac) son of Ibrahim. He was called Israel and he gave birth to 12 sons that there offspring became what is known now the Israelis.
And Allah chose them in the meaning that He sent them lots of prophets from there own kin. This doesn't meant they are all righteose or their race is superior in a way that they get to do what ever they wish to other races.
It is true that there is one God almighty, soverein and undescriveble,
but wich of the revelations is correct?
How can you say that after all that talk about Holy spirit and the claim "Jesus is a god"?
undescribeble? he is described that He is the Almighty and that he is One and that he Knows all that was and is and will be and the might have been..etc
Then he claimed:
Jesus was offered as a lam once and for all time because he was God
Thats illogical.
this looks more like thoes greek myths. you claimed that a god fathered a son and this son decided to offer himself as a sacrifice so others can do the same as he did in his life? and if it's a "once and for all" why do christians need to avoid sins.
and if we are all sinners that needs to be sacrified how come sometimes babys die before they become "aware"? what did they do?
Did they die because others commited sins? Are You claiming that Allah is Punishing them for something they didn't do?
The old and new testament can come from the same source if the emphasis or plan is adapted.
In the beginning of Jesus ministry he emphasis that he didn't came to change the law but to forfill it.
I'm talking about the "contradictions" the difference between what the so called old testement's wrath and call for war and what's called new testment's call for forgiveness and peace.
Isaiah one of the profets says in chapter 53: that the Lord "was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities, the punishment that brought us peace was upon him". who else could this be as Jesus?
Again you say now that God was tortured and killed. Thats impossible I don't care who -you claim- said it.
Interesting, you claimed he said that in the Past tense. Thats after the incident you claimed lead to the death of Jesus. So this man added to the "Bible"
isn't he cursed according to what you said before? Unless you beleive this bible is open for addition afterwards by selected people.
Edit: note if anybody sees that I made a mistake in my above text please inform me or correct it if a moderator. Just mark it w/red so I know.
