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Author Topic: The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)  (Read 3117 times)

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Offline Tal7a

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The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« on: Wednesday 26 December 2001, 19:58 »
People who deny the existence of God can be classified into three categories. Firstly, those who believe the universe created itself; secondly, those who believe the universe was created by nature and finally, those who believe the universe happened by chance or coincidence.

For those who claim the universe created itself, are claiming a logical contradiction. For example, if someone claims Mr. X created himself, that would mean that Mr. X had to exist before being created to be a creator and existed again at another time to be a creation! That would mean he existed twice and this is impossible. Another example to clarify this point is if someone was in a room and knows there is a book on the table. When this person leaves the room and knows that no one will enter it and when he returns he finds the book on the chair. Would he accept the book moved by itself? The answer is simply "No", because we all know that books cannot move by themselves. In the same way creating is not an attribute of the universe itself.

For those who claim the universe was created by nature, it is obvious that nature is a part of the universe. Since nature is a part of the universe, it is as if they are claiming a part of the universe created the entire universe! These people are referred back to those who claim the universe created itself and we have already proven this cannot be the case. Another example to clarify this point is when one sees a table; can that table make another table? The answer is simply "No". That is what this so-called BIG BANG theory is like; when they claim that the entire universe was formed by a single particle. Whoever believes in this BIG BANG theory is easily cornered by this question: "Who created     this so-called single particle to begin with?" As you can see this BIG BANG theory, which Darwin has suggested and some scientists agreed on has been proven wrong.

As for those who maintain the idea that the universe existed by chance. There once was a teacher who was teaching his students that the universe happened by chance without a Creator. One of his students knew that this was not true, so when lunchtime began the teacher and his students went to lunch except the student who knew what the teacher had said was not true. He stayed back and wrote on the blackboard in big writing: "OUR TEACHER IS A DONKEY", before going to lunch. When the teacher and his students came back from lunch, the teacher saw the writing on the blackboard and asked his students: "Which one of you wrote this?" None of the students replied. Pointing at the blackboard he yelled: "Who wrote this about me?" Still none of the students answered. Then the teacher got very angry and told them that they would all have to stay back after class until an answer was given. The student that wrote it stood up and asked: "What makes you think that one of us wrote it?" The teacher replied: "It is impossible that the writing on the blackboard just happened by chance, someone had to write it!" The student replied to the teacher telling him: "You are teaching us the universe happened by chance without a Creator, but you cannot accept that the writing on the blackboard appeared without a writer!" The teacher was shocked and had nothing to say. It is enough proof for anyone to see the perfect order and precision the universe is in, which becomes obvious that such order cannot happen by chance or coincidence.

Offline Milk

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The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 07 April 2005, 15:51 »
The sound mind testify to the existence of God.

Offline azizrasul

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The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 15 June 2005, 06:35 »
Verse 21:30 suggests that a big bang did occur and that Allah created the particle.

Offline Milk

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The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 15 June 2005, 16:46 »
Quote from: azizrasul
Verse 21:30 suggests that a big bang did occur and that Allah created the particle.


Can you bring me the name of only one authentic sunni scholar who said so in his tafseer of the Qur'an?

Offline Advisor

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The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 16 June 2005, 02:30 »
Yes the explenation (tafseer) of this Surah is totaly different from this.

Offline azizrasul

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Re: The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #5 on: Friday 21 April 2006, 16:09 »
Quote
Can you bring me the name of only one authentic sunni scholar who said so in his tafseer of the Qur'an?

If Allah, Most High, says that the universe was created from a unit particle (comprising the heavens and the earth) and was rent assunder, why do we need a authentic sunni scholar for this?

Offline ghani

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Re: The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 22 April 2006, 00:14 »
People who deny the existence of God can be classified into three categories. Firstly, those who believe the universe created itself; secondly, those who believe the universe was created by nature and finally, those who believe the universe happened by chance or coincidence.
Absolutely no atheist would claim either that "the universe created itself" or that it was "created by nature". Few would use the "chance" terminology, either. What an educated atheist is more likely to say is that the universe simply exists and always has, in the same way that theists say God exists and always has.

The arguments against the universe creating itself or nature creating the universe were, logically speaking, good arguments. The argument against "chance" though was weak. There is a huge difference between something that must have had a beginning (such as the writing on the board, which can only be a product of human input), and something that it's possible to doubt had a beginning (like the universe).

There are better arguments.

Offline samsparky

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Re: The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 22 April 2006, 06:50 »
No thing with specifications can exist on its own - it must have a Creator which specified it with those particular specifications rather than any others.

God - THE Creator is not subject to such specifications. He Exists without a size, body, shape or colour.

« Last Edit: Wednesday 21 June 2006, 22:33 by samsparky »

Offline muHammad_K

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Re: The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 22 April 2006, 13:18 »
The universe is subject to limitations, time, change, and spaces.  It has created attributes.  This is clearly a sign that it is created.  That which has created attributes must itself be created. 

Therefore, logically, we must believe that the universe has a Creator who is not subject to limitations, time, change, and spaces.  The Creator has Eternal, Everlasting, Unchanging Attributes. 
Allaah Exists without a place.  He is not contained within the directions that created things are contained within.

Offline muHammad_K

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Re: The Logical Proof that the Creator Exists (page 2)
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 22 April 2006, 13:20 »
The use of the word "He" about allaah the Creator is not understood as representing gender. 

 



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