Topic: "Create" and "Khalaqa"

[Chrono]

Actually Abdullah My point is we can't use the Arabic term "Khalaq" in the meaning of "sana^"
I told Chrono the meanings of this term stated by El fayrouz Abadi. Apparently he disagrees with the Great scholar. I'll take El Fayrouz Abadi's word and Ignore Chrono's.

Yes. I agree with you. Ignore my word. But lend your ear to Qurtubi:

 وقوله تعالى : " فتبارك " تفاعل من البركة . " أحسن الخالقين " أتقن الصانعين. يقال لمن صنع شيئا خلقه ; ومنه قول الشاعر : ولأنت تفري ما خلقت وبع ض القوم يخلق ثم لا يفري وذهب بعض الناس إلى نفي هذه اللفظة عن الناس وإنما يضاف الخلق إلى الله تعالى

You see, El Fayrouz never said that Sana3 was NOT a meaning of Khalaqa. He may not have mentioned this meaning, but OTHER scholars (such as Qurtubi) definitely recognized it.

In saying that Khalaqa CANNOT mean Sana3, you have effectively fallen into Hukm bilaa 3ilm. I advise you against this, as a friend.

Muhammad was reported to have said:

من يحكم بغير علم فعليه لعنة الله والملائكة والناس أجمعين

I hope neither of us fall into this.

[Advisor]

No need for your concern. I don't fall under the Hadith you mentioned.


 

وذهب بعض الناس إلى نفي هذه اللفظة عن الناس وإنما يضاف الخلق إلى الله تعالى

This means at the very least that what the Qurtobi said was not approvoved by all scholars. which means I took the saying of the scholars who didn't approve.

And since Al Qurtobi is not a linguistic like El fayrouz Abadi I'll ask People who knows tafseer about it. it's well known to us that tafseer is not to be taken by reading. I'm sure you know the term Talaqi.

Besides We only take from Qurtobi what our scholars say it's true. not that he's not a great scholar he is, but lots of stuff in his book was fabricated on him.

[Chrono]

Why didn't you quote the whole thing?

وذهب بعض الناس إلى نفي هذه اللفظة عن الناس وإنما يضاف الخلق إلى الله تعالى. وقال ابن جريج: إنما قال "أحسن الخالقين" لأنه تعالى قد أذن لعيسى عليه السلام أن يخلق؛ واضطرب بعضهم في ذلك. ولا تنفى اللفظة عن البشر في معنى الصنع؛ وإنما هي منفية بمعنى الاختراع وإيجاد من العدم.

ابن جريح explains clearly that the expression is not negated for humans with the meaning of San'. It is only negated with the meaning of bringing from nothing into existence.

Those people who deny the Lafzah for people altogether are actually denying the Qur'an, for as the scholar mentioned, the present tense of the expression was attributed to Jesus.

In any case, here are two very knowledgeable scholars who accepted خلق as having the meaning of صنع. You are in no position to say that it does not have that meaning. Also, al-Fayrouz Abadi DIDN'T say that it DOES NOT have that meaning, as you seem to be claiming. He may not have mentioned it, but he didn't deny it.

The fact is that صنع, according to many knowledgeable sources, can be synonymous with خلق.

[Advisor]

Also, al-Fayrouz Abadi DIDN'T say that it DOES NOT have that meaning, as you seem to be claiming. He may not have mentioned it, but he didn't deny it.

Bad Argument.
Why didn't he name his book "the Half Kamous" then?
If it does come in that meaning I'll say I was wrong just give me some time.

لأنه تعالى قد أذن لعيسى عليه السلام أن يخلق

This sounds like a forgery..... I'm not sure again. Qurtubi's book needs lots of reorganising. the people who are printing it these days are laymen.

Even the verse he mentioned in his explenaition doesn't mean like "sana^a".

Do you have other proofs from other sources?

[Zahhaad]

Seeming as I'm the one who started this all off with my statement in the Terrorism post, I'll be the one to finish it.

I can confirm that Khalaqa does have the meaning Sana^a. Not just Imam al-Qurtubiyy but many many scholars said the same thing. at-Tabariyy and al-Baghawiyy are among them, which can be found in their Tafseers.

The term Akhluq was mentioned on the tongue of ^Essa in the Qur'an. This is probably what Qurtubiyy and the other scholars were referring to.

Dear brother Advisor, if you have a look in some other good dictionaries you will definitely find this, no doubt about it.

[Advisor]

Actually Zahhad the term "Akhluq" which was mentioned in Quraan which was said by Issa means "Osawwer" which means sculpt in the Ayah.

I looked in Lissan El Arab an Al Qamouse I didn't find any reference that it means "Sana^a".
Even In lissan El Arab Ibn Manthour Quoted the same verse mentioned by Alqurtobi. but he didn't explain it as "Sana^a"

Also the same poet's quote doesn't mean Sana3a.

bottom line is most linguistics say it doesn't com in that specific rather general  meaning.

And since we all know that its meaning "bring from non-exsistance to exsistance" is only for Allah to do. Then this discussion is pointless for me.