Topic: "Create" and "Khalaqa"

[Chrono]

Create a nice world where potential militants would be happy to live in. Then they will feel less need to be violent.

But only Allah can create things, not us.

Create means to make.

You can't make things?

Oh dear.

[Milk]

Create a nice world where potential militants would be happy to live in. Then they will feel less need to be violent.

But only Allah can create things, not us.

Create means to make.

You can't make things?

Oh dear.

To create means to bring things from nothing into existence.

Try to do that if you can ya ^aduw Allah.

[CC James]

Create a nice world where potential militants would be happy to live in. Then they will feel less need to be violent.

But only Allah can create things, not us.

Create means to make.

You can't make things?

Oh dear.

To create means to bring things from nothing into existence.

Try to do that if you can ya ^aduw Allah.

Woah woah! Why are you calling me 'aduw Allah? Cool it dude!

To clarify the meaning of "create" in English: no, it doesn't necessarily have to mean bringing things from nothing into existence. It comes from the Latin "creare", meaning to produce. Its basic meaning is to bring into existence, whether from something else or from nothing. In this case it can and always has been applied to acts of humans.

Much the same can be said of the Arabic word (khalaqa). Its basic meaning is simply to make, or to produce (). [] as we see from such wordings as:

?? ? ? ??

in which khaliq is understood to mean sani', or according to other interpreters, ?

Similarly, the present tense of is applied to Jesus in the Qur'an. This is a clear proof that in Arabic, just like in English, the word has various meanings that can apply to either Creator or creation.

[Advisor]

Much the same can be said of the Arabic word (khalaqa). Its basic meaning is simply to make, or to produce ().

Althought it's true The Arabic term "Khalaq" has several meanings in Arabic Language, non of thoes as far as I know is "to Produce".  It may come as "Sculpted".
Besides It's well known that Muslims (God fearing ones at least) try to avoid the use of such words. You rarely find it in Arabic literature in other meanings than the one Milk described.
And Edit the term "author of the Quraan" to some thing that won't get you banned.

[Chrono]

And Edit the term "author of the Quraan" to some thing that won't get you banned.

A person can get banned for writing that he doesn't believe the Qur'an is the word of God?

[Sami Yusuf Islam]

anyone would get banned for not respecting ANY of TAI's set of rules.


Follow the rules of decent respectful discussion and debate, and we would be happy to discuss and talk .

Impose your view on others, and sorry, we disagree.

[Advisor]

Althought it's true The Arabic term "Khalaq" has several meanings in Arabic Language, non of thoes as far as I know is "to Produce". It may come as "Sculpted".

Well According to El-fayrouz Abadi Writer of Al Kamouse which is one of the best Arab Language Dictionaries. He didn't say that it may come in that meaning (which you said chrono).
And besides it is not to be compared to The English term create. since I really don't know what this term may come as in meaning.

 Milk's point was to avoid such termenology in such sentences.
Because even if the one who typed it didn't know it doesn't come in the context he was talking about(supposing so), or it does come in this context (but might be understood wrongly),  he should've avoided the term that might refer -in one of it's meanings- to an action which is impossible to humans and created, and only possible for Allah.

[Chrono]

Althought it's true The Arabic term "Khalaq" has several meanings in Arabic Language, non of thoes as far as I know is "to Produce". It may come as "Sculpted".

Well According to El-fayrouz Abadi Writer of Al Kamouse which is one of the best Arab Language Dictionaries. He didn't say that it may come in that meaning (which you said chrono).
And besides it is not to be compared to The English term create. since I really don't know what this term may come as in meaning.

 Milk's point was to avoid such termenology in such sentences.
Because even if the one who typed it didn't know it doesn't come in the context he was talking about(supposing so), or it does come in this context (but might be understood wrongly),  he should've avoided the term that might refer -in one of it's meanings- to an action which is impossible to humans and created, and only possible for Allah.

There is no reason why anybody should not use the English term "to create" in any of its valid English contexts.

You said that in al-Qamus the word did not come with the meaning I stated (presumably the meaning "to produce"). Of course it doesn't give that meaning, because "produce" is an English word! You have to ask me, which ARABIC word did I intend by "produce"? The answer is , which can sometimes mean. If you require further references I can provide you with them.

[Sami Yusuf Islam]

1) Why is this discussion about the verb "create" and its meanings here in subject which does not talk about that?

why this is not in a separate discussion ?


Brother Advisor, you can split the topic if you wish .

2) What is truly this debate about?

That the verb Khalaqa could be used in situations where it means other than "to make to exist from non-existant"
?

What is the point where you disagree ?

[Advisor]

Actually Abdullah My point is we can't use the Arabic term "Khalaq" in the meaning of "sana^"
I told Chrono the meanings of this term stated by El fayrouz Abadi. Apparently he disagrees with the Great scholar. I'll take El Fayrouz Abadi's word and Ignore Chrono's.

I'm sure most of us will do that.

Chrono wrote:
which ARABIC word did I intend by "produce"? The answer is , which can sometimes mean. If you require further references I can provide you with them.

Why don't you provide this reference you're talking about?
Probably a verse from an ancient Arabic poet....

I think I'd better move the thread to someplace  to someplace else. Where does it stand?