Topic: The Knowledge of God doesn't change?

[Chrono]

I contemplated the Ash'arite and Maturidite (and therefore Sunnite) belief that the Knowledge of God doesn't change.

This presented one very serious problem:

In order for knowledge to remain accurate and correct, it has to be updated!

For example, right now I am sitting down on a chair. That means that right now, God knows that I am sitting on a chair. Correct?

If I decide to stand up, then God will know that I'm NOT sitting on a chair anymore. How is this *not* a change in knowledge?

Another example: right now, God knows that World War 2 happened and passed.

But before World War 2 happened, God would have known that it had not happened or come to pass yet. This, too, indicates that as things change in Creation, the Creator would have to know new things.

A further example. Right now, it's not possible to "know" that Yawm al-Qiyamah has started. Why? Because it hasn't started yet! So we can't say that God "knows" Yawm al-Qiyamah has started, because that is untrue.

However, when Yawm al-Qiyamah does really begin, then God will "know" that it has started.

Again, this indicates a change in knowledge or an update so to speak, in order for the knowledge to remain accurate.

Actually, if you say that the Creator cannot know new things, then it is like saying that when new things take place and when circumstances change, God will remain ignorant of them. This is not a perfection! This is imperfection!

Thoughts, anybody?

[sofia]

erm i agree with your view; when things are new for us, it isn't new for Him; He is aware of it before we've even done it.

My opinion on the 'problem':

God beyond time (i.e time does not exist with Him)
 I don't know how to phrase this exactly: God is in a different sort of dimension.


I hope insha' Allah that that kind of explains it.

[sofia]

sorry i meant
"God IS beyond time"

[Advisor]

Allah's knowledge is eternal.
God eternally knew that such thing will happen at such time.
God eternally knew that at this time WW2 started 66 years ago and ended 60 ears a go.
this is playing with words, not logic.
Allah's knowledge is Eternal and never increase or decrease.
There is nothing Allah Didn't know and then He did and nothing Allah new and now he doesn't.
Simple isn't it?

[Advisor]

And welcome to TAI Sofia.
Thank you for joining us.

[me_against_wahhabis]

@Chrono

Are you trying to compare the creation's attribute to Creator? I would say that your mind so limited that you yourself don't understand what is the difference between a God and the creation who created the creation. You always think what you see and what you imagine and what encompase in your mind.

Can you imagine two thing or color in same time? I dare you can't and you don't have no argument about it. The Will of God is Eternal and God knows what is His Will. Since, you don't know what will happend to you in next day so you are under the Will of God.

Changes take place with creation not with a Creator. Knowledge of human it is limited by one's limitation brain. You only can encompase what you see surround you and your imagination. Beyond that you can't encompase in your mind something you have not seen in your life. For example, can you imagine that there is no light but only darkness or there was no place, no darkness, no light? So, don't go after attribute of God but appreciate that God created you from non-existence to existence.

[sofia]

Allah's knowledge is eternal.
God eternally knew that such thing will happen at such time.
God eternally knew that at this time WW2 started 66 years ago and ended 60 ears a go.
this is playing with words, not logic.
Allah's knowledge is Eternal and never increase or decrease.
There is nothing Allah Didn't know and then He did and nothing Allah new and now he doesn't.
Simple isn't it?

jazakallah!
that was explained really coherently!
 

[sofia]

And welcome to TAI Sofia.
Thank you for joining us.

Thank you!
Alhamdulillah that I found this forum!
I like the way everyone is united and islam is being implemented into our daily lives (i.e. politics etc) like it should it be.
This is the way we should be going forward (working together as an ummah) rather than backwards and allowing people to tread on us.

jazakAllah for welcoming me.

[CC James]

Allah's knowledge is eternal.
God eternally knew that such thing will happen at such time.
God eternally knew that at this time WW2 started 66 years ago and ended 60 ears a go.
this is playing with words, not logic.
Allah's knowledge is Eternal and never increase or decrease.
There is nothing Allah Didn't know and then He did and nothing Allah new and now he doesn't.
Simple isn't it?

Let's try this again. I will do it in question and answer format.

Question 1: Before anything existed, God knew that nothing existed. Right or wrong?

Question 2: Now, God knows that things do exist. Right or wrong?

Answering "right" to both implies knowing two opposite things at two different stages. This is a change in knowledge.

[Advisor]

The Change is in Creation not in Allah's knowlege.
Allah Eternally knew What will be, What has been, and What would have been if it was to be.
This won't change.
Your text doesn't refute mine. Why insist on looking at it the way you are and not the way I explained.

God eternally knew that such thing will happen at such time.
God eternally knew that at this time WW2 started 66 years ago and ended 60 ears a go.

That won't change now would it?
 You know that we Muslims know that Allah and His attributes are eternal.