Topic: Prophets don't sin before Prophethood? Not even desire sin?

[Chrono]

A famous Sunnite and indeed Shi'ite belief is the idea that Prophets are impeccable from committing blasphemy, "major sins" and "small vile sins" before Prophethood as well as after it.

After extensive checking, I didn't find any textual support for this belief at all... not a thing.

Nevertheless, I can understand the logic behind a Prophet being protected from doing things which would harm his character. This would discredit his claim to authenticity, so it doesn't seem likely that God would entrust Prophethood to such a person.

But as for simply DESIRING to commit a "major sin", without actually doing it... this wouldn't discredit a Prophet at all, in the eyes of those who can see him. Considering this, there is absolutely no textual or rational proof that a Prophet in Islam could NOT desire to commit a great sin. There's a big difference between temptation and actually doing it.

Can anybody prove me wrong? Can anybody give me so much as a single evidence that Prophets can't desire to commit great sins?

[Advisor]

Well Chrono, Looking at a member of the opposit sex lustfully is considered a "vile small sin" for instance.

Besides Prophethood is not "acquired" as you may think (judging your text) it's granted. A Prophet is born a Prophet.  And prophets are the best of all creation and they are impeccable from any thing that may contradict or compremise their mission which is -as you probably know- spreading the message of Islam.

[Chrono]

Well Chrono, Looking at a member of the opposit sex lustfully is considered a "vile small sin" for instance.

That had nothing to do with my question. My question was regarding DESIRING to commit major sins. Such as desiring to commit fornication or adultery, yet abstaining from it. There is no proof, textual or mental, why Prophets would be ?? from this.

Besides Prophethood is not "acquired" as you may think (judging your text) it's granted. A Prophet is born a Prophet.

Incorrect, as least as far as Islam is concerned. Go back to your teachers, and they'll tell you that is wrong. For example, Islam maintains that Muhammad became a Prophet at 40 years old... NOT that he was a Prophet all his life.

This is why in the books of creed it is mentioned that: ?? ? .

And prophets are the best of all creation and they are impeccable from any thing that may contradict or compremise their mission

That's the whole point. Having a forbidden INNER desire that nobody can see does NOT compromise their mission! Nobody can see it! It's in the heart! So what is the proof for saying that Prophets are clear of such things?

[Advisor]

Chrono said

Incorrect, as least as far as Islam is concerned. Go back to your teachers, and they'll tell you that is wrong. For example, Islam maintains that Muhammad became a Prophet at 40 years old... NOT that he was a Prophet all his life.

What I meant is no one can "aquire" the Prophethood there is nothing one can do to become a Prophet. It's something Allah granted to the ones he willed.
I mentioned it because some claim they are muslims and say the Prophethood is aquired.

[Chrono]

Chrono said

Incorrect, as least as far as Islam is concerned. Go back to your teachers, and they'll tell you that is wrong. For example, Islam maintains that Muhammad became a Prophet at 40 years old... NOT that he was a Prophet all his life.

What I meant is no one can "aquire" the Prophethood there is nothing one can do to become a Prophet. It's something Allah granted to the ones he willed.
I mentioned it because some claim they are muslims and say the Prophethood is aquired.

I never said anything about Prophethood being "acquired".

Now, if you will, let's return to the topic.

[Advisor]

I never said anything about Prophethood being "acquired".

I know I just pointed it out because of what you said:

so it doesn't seem likely that God would entrust Prophethood to such a person.

so I had to point out that the prophet is  ?? because he is meant to be so not he becomes a prophet because he is  ??

As for the subject The prophets have the purest hearts. So they do not desire to disobey Allah.

[Chrono]

As for the subject The prophets have the purest hearts. So they do not desire to disobey Allah.

What is the proof that they couldn't desire to disobey? Even before Prophethood?

On the contrary, it seems that the texts state otherwise. The Qur'an has Adam eating from the forbidden tree. If this is true, then he must have desired to do so in his heart.

Some Muslim scholars say that what Jonah did, going away from the Ninevites without permission from God, was a sin. He must have desired this in his heart then, if it is true.

[alurdumaaniyy]

Prophets can commit small sins which are not abject. The sins mentioned here are of that kind.

[Chrono]

Prophets can commit small sins which are not abject. The sins mentioned here are of that kind.

Still, the subject hasn't been fully dealt with.

The core problem is the following: Sunnites and Shi'ites say that Prophets cannot have a desire in their hearts to commit major sins. But what is the proof for this? I can't think of a single textual or mental one for that matter.

As I stated, the "it would compromise their duty of prophethood" argument doesn't hold here. This is because a mere desire in the heart is not something tangible to other people around you. Therefore, even if a Prophet desired to do something majorly sinful (without doing it of course), this could not possibly affect his general message or lead people to think badly of him.

[alurdumaaniyy]

The core problem is the following: Sunnites and Shi'ites say that Prophets cannot have a desire in their hearts to commit major sins. But what is the proof for this? I can't think of a single textual or mental one for that matter.

Indeed, there is no text in the Qur'ân or Sunnah stating : "Prophets cannot have a desire in their hearts to commit major sins" but I have learned by reading your posts you are intelligent enough to know how principles and rules are deduced.

As I stated, the "it would compromise their duty of prophethood" argument doesn't hold here. This is because a mere desire in the heart is not something tangible to other people around you. Therefore, even if a Prophet desired to do something majorly sinful (without doing it of course), this could not possibly affect his general message or lead people to think badly of him.

That is accepting the idea that prophets only act for the sake of the public, so they would not need to have any sincerity but just make sure they are not caught sinning.

Allâh describes prophets as virtuous and virtue starts in the heart. Virtue does not happen by the mere absence of sin and apparent compliance with duties.