Topic: shia and sunni

[shia_blossom]

salamu 3alaikun dear brothers and sisters,

i just wanted to ask a simple question and i would like a very honest and simple answer.

why do the sunnis deny the truth about imam ^Ali (^alayhis-salam) becoming the first Khalif if indeed Abu Bakr and the others where there at the time of the great speech of Prophet Muhammad announcing clearly that imam ali is the 5aleefa after him indeed n prooved...

Prophet Muhammah (sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam) said: man kuntu mawlah fa hatha 3aliyon mawla

and indeed he said this  on the daii of eid al ghadeer where thousands of muslims gathered round n after a 3 hour speech prophet muhammad (sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam) raised Imam ^Ali (^alayhis-salam) hand n said it clearly

n yeah thats bout it for now

salams ... (F)

[samsparky]

wa 3alaikom assalaam dear sis,

Welcome to the forum

It is an important question and often the starting point of discussion between shia and sunni.

We do not deny the greatness of Imaam Ali and that he is a leader to be followed.

And whatever he preaches is in accordance with what the Prophet taught.

But we also acknowledge that Abu Bakr, Umar amd Uthmaan were also among the best Companions and they also preached in accordance with what the Prophet taught.

What we know about when the Prophet was dying is that when he was unable to lead the Muslims in Prayer, he ordered that Abu Bakr lead them in Prayer.

This is an indication that Abu Bakr was to be the leader of the Muslims after Prophet MuHammad died.

And it is not in contradiction of Imaam Ali being a person to follow. Because Imaam Ali followed Abu Bakr.

[shia_blossom]

salams again,

we shia dont believe that Prophet Muhammad told Abu Bakar to lead Islam n indeed they were very well known companions to the Prophet but not 5aleefs Imam Ali was the first 5aleef after Prophet Muahmmad they were all there n they went up to Imam Ali n told him ba5on ba5on laka ya ali after this speech but after the Prophet past away they just 4got everything the Prophet said n went on along their own way wanting to take over islam n thats bout it

ws

[samsparky]

So you are saying you do not believe that Prophet MuHammad told Imaam Abu Bakr to lead the Prayers when he was dying?

Do you want us to get you the proof then?


As for what you said the Prophet said, I explained above that Imaam Ali is a leader to be followed but not the first after the Prophet. If he had been the first leader after Prophet MuHammad, then he would have spoken up as when he spoke up against mu^aawiyah.

But if you are saying that Imaam Ali was silent for 3 caliphates then you are undermining Imaam Ali and saying that he is scared to say the truth.

I say that does not make sense.

Imaam Ali knew that Abu Bakr was the next Caliph and that is why he did not object to it.

Do you have any proof about Imaam Ali objecting to Abu Bakr's caliphate?

[azizrasul]

How important is it who was the 1st caliph. How does it affect our deen today. Why do the Shia Muslims spend so much time on this topic? Sunnis, from my experience spend little or no time on this but devote their time on how to please Allah, surely that is more practical.

History is important but not to the extent that it encompasses your life. Every Muslim respects the family of the Prophet, but they left this duniya many centuries ago. Let's concentrate on the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet (may Allah bless them).

[silkworm]

My humble opinion about this question is that this basically was a "political disagreement" which was swelled to proportions by the Munafiqs (hypocrites) who called themselves Moslems but actually were not and only acted as Moslems to hurt Islam and as the events showed up they never wasted time in doing so.

Like Sunni Imam Abu Hanifa was educated from Hazrat Ali's school of thought and should have "preached" Shi'ism" but he didn't, this simple act proves who is who and what actually went wrong. Like Imam Shafa'is' best student was came be known as Imam Ibn Humbal so likewise he supported the same jurisprudence and not "invented" something new.

Hazrat Ali's reverence, his courage and wisdom and honesty is acknowledged and accepted in Sunnis and not one of us ever reject (Ma'azallah) or disqualify or degrade him.  We have to be very careful especially in these times when western forces are knocking on our doors to refrain from "controvercial" discussions,t his would only hurt us more.

[samsparky]

Imam Ali's school of thought is not referred to as shia. Imam Aliyy followed the teachings of the Prophet, as does every true school of thought. These days the word shia implies things which are not acceptable to the teachings of the Prophet.

[silkworm]

Well said, however, there is one more thing we Sunnis do never curse Hazrat Ali while the Shias curse out Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Umar and Hazrat Usman which is is the basic fued.

[silkworm]

Because it would simply mean that Islam believes in Nepotism, which however is not the case. Speaking so bluntly without keeping in mind the religious harmony Islam created through Prophet Mohammad saw and men assembled close to Prophet Mohammad saw were mature, God fearing, humble and pious people and this sort of "tragedy" happened to Hazrat Ali kaw can never be expected from such men.

Some of these accusations were initially spread to create doubts among the newly converted masses, like the event that had happened with Hazrat Ayesha getting lost in the desert in search of her jewellery. It was Sabah Ibn Salim who was a Jewish convert who started the whole damn thing.