Topic: Ibn Taymiyah, the devious innovator ...

[samsparky]

I believe that he means by AAWWB "assalaamu 3alaikom wa raHmatullaah wa barakaatuh"

The saHaaba and the Prophet never wrote AAWWB instead of writing assalaamu 3alaikom wa raHmatullah wa barakaatuh, rather salmaan_farsi is practising this innovation because he believes it suits him.

[samsparky]

And by the way salman, i see that YOU didn't read MY post about the scholars who pointed out ibn Taymiya's mistakes and the reason why he should not be followed.

And did you even bother to read the part that says that a judge from each of the 4 schools of thought ruled against ibn Taymiya!!!!

pls make the effort & don't be so full of yourself not to read what we reply.

And by the way, i've included references to where the scholars have said their words - in most cases the page number as well. You are able to check whether i'm lying or truthful - but you have not included references to many of your quotes - i believe that's because they are not valid quotes.

[Salman_Farsiy]

And by the way salman, i see that YOU didn't read MY post about the scholars who pointed out ibn Taymiya's mistakes and the reason why he should not be followed.

And did you even bother to read the part that says that a judge from each of the 4 schools of thought ruled against ibn Taymiya!!!!

pls make the effort & don't be so full of yourself not to read what we reply.

And by the way, i've included references to where the scholars have said their words - in most cases the page number as well. You are able to check whether i'm lying or truthful - but you have not included references to many of your quotes - i believe that's because they are not valid quotes.

Let Allah gives you and Us more Ilm,Unless you will continue accusing Scholars without Knowledge.
 I have not got that Ilm as Great Ulamas had because of this I avoid accusing or blaming them.
  Unfortunately some of our Brothers behaving them selves as Jahils DO debate.
 I strongly ask you all who accuse Ulamas Not to play on words bringing empty disscussions.

I believe that he means by AAWWB "assalaamu 3alaikom wa raHmatullaah wa barakaatuh

The saHaaba and the Prophet never wrote AAWWB instead of writing assalaamu 3alaikom wa raHmatullah wa barakaatuh, rather salmaan_farsi is practising this innovation because he believes it suits him.

 
Thanks for trying to correct me, but you cannot express real pronounciation of this word with latin letters as you tried to do.
So Better to write it in Arabic letters:
(السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركته)
I did not talk that it suits me(dont speak from the name of me,dont lie!), and I m not talking from the name of Islam about this AAWWB case.and You are also lieing as one of Brother did by saying false statements from the name of me and from the name of  Great Ulamas.Here I did not talk from the name of Islam(In the case of AAWWB), as some brothers giving "fatwas"on Islamic questions  without a couple of knowledge and understanding about Islam. Shame Brothers shame!!!!
 Let us do not behaive like kids grove up Brothers!!!Here its not a playground to play on words!!!

[samsparky]

I did not lie about any scholars. I gave you references whereby you can find exactly where the statements were said.

Do yourself a favour and look them up before you call me a liar.

[Salman_Farsiy]

?? ?? ? ?

I did not lie about any scholars. I gave you references whereby you can find exactly where the statements were said.

Do yourself a favour and look them up before you call me a liar.

Judgement day is coming soon,Your references are full of false statements  and lies(Allah knows best),We will not continue playing on words. Dont  trust just only one googled link.Thus yourself have not got 'ilm as Scholars do. Make tawba and avoid blindly accusing Ulama, In judgement day no one- none of those "Scolars" that accused Great Ulama will be responsible for you! Stop eating flash of Dead body of Scholars.Learn 'ilm Brother!!!

al Muslimah    -
Profession    
Question    As-Salamu `alaykum. I want to know what is the ruling for people who accuse or simply badmouth the scholars of Islam (knowingly or unknowingly). The problem is that people hear things (bad) about the scholars either from websites or lectures, but they then go out and spread it to others. Is this the right behavior in Islam?

They give the excuse that this person is misguiding the masses. But what if they are innocent? Does having such attitude towards the scholars even because of ignorance, means one is not a good Muslim (if you are considering such a person for marriage)?

I really appreciate your time.


Answer    Wa `alaykum As-Salamu wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

In Islam, we are to stay away from the sins of ghibah (backbiting) as well as buhtan or making false allegations; both are most heinous sins; backbiting is to speak ill of others; buhtan is to speak ill of others while they are completely innocent of what they are accusing.

A Muslim must never make decisions based on heresy and rumor; this applies to ordinary people as well as scholars; but the sin is worse when applied to a scholar, for scholars, provided they are authentic ones, are bearers of the legacy of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him); so putting them down and making false accusations against them is worse; that is why one scholar said, "flesh of scholars are poisoned meat!"

If anyone has a serious concern about a scholar, he should verify it not through his enemies, but directly; otherwise, we are guilty of major sins.

How sad it is to know that even great imams like Abu Hanifah in the past were showered by abuses and false allegations by those who knew about him very little; the books are full of them; people who indulge in such practices, therefore, only hurt themselves.

If a person you know is guilty of such things, then he should not be considered a person of good character for marriage until he has repented and changed himself for better. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), taught us that we should choose only such persons for marriage who bear good character and morals.

Allah Almighty knows best.
 

[samsparky]

I challenge you to look up just ONE of the references i put up.

If you do this then you will see that i did not lie.

If i got my information from google then i would have been doubtful about whether or not you will find it in the books of scholars.

Look the references up - even if it was just 1 reference that you choose to look up - you will see that i am not lying or talking just out of rumour. I'm just showing you what is documented.

[Martin]

We can talk a lot about Ibn Taymiyyah.
But let me say one thing that i've experienced and touched among people living in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the land of the people who unleashed the Ibn Taymiyyah doctrines into the wild.
Actually, Saudi Arabia ,and so are many gulf states, are living now the so-called " Ibn Taymiyyah dilemma". These people have raised their young generation based on idolizing Ibn Taymiyyah and his philosophies.  I like to call it philosophy, cause in so many places ,Ibn Taymiyyah was more of a philosopher than a scholar. And who dares not calling him " Sheikh Al Islam" there?.
The young generation grew up as such. They became obsessed with Ibn Taymiyyah, and adpoted blindly all his philosophies and ideas. And now, what do we have? we have a generation all full of hardlining fanatic men and women, nonhesitantly making takfeer of all muslims who don't fall under their umbrella, and i wish it ceased here. The young generation suffocated by hatred and grudge went on joining military groups willingly massacring other muslims, such as Al Ikhwan, or Al Qaeda.
As i'm writing this, i know that i may not be spared. Coz who dares going into the open and spelling it out in Saudi Arabia, the way we are doing it here. I'm sure that the barking ruthless dogs that Ibn Taymiyyah phantom has fueled with abhorrement will snatch his meat out.
It is a dilema indeed. The government and many parents don't know what to do with it. How can we rid them all out from Ibn Taymiyyah?
We are at least saying it out Mr Farsiy. Just saying it out.

[Salman_Farsiy]

We can talk a lot about Ibn Taymiyyah.
But let me say one thing that i've experienced and touched among people living in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the land of the people who unleashed the Ibn Taymiyyah doctrines into the wild.
Actually, Saudi Arabia ,and so are many gulf states, are living now the so-called " Ibn Taymiyyah dilemma". These people have raised their young generation based on idolizing Ibn Taymiyyah and his philosophies.  I like to call it philosophy, cause in so many places ,Ibn Taymiyyah was more of a philosopher than a scholar. And who dares not calling him " Sheikh Al Islam" there?.
The young generation grew up as such. They became obsessed with Ibn Taymiyyah, and adpoted blindly all his philosophies and ideas. And now, what do we have? we have a generation all full of hardlining fanatic men and women, nonhesitantly making takfeer of all muslims who don't fall under their umbrella, and i wish it ceased here. The young generation suffocated by hatred and grudge went on joining military groups willingly massacring other muslims, such as Al Ikhwan, or Al Qaeda.
As i'm writing this, i know that i may not be spared. Coz who dares going into the open and spelling it out in Saudi Arabia, the way we are doing it here. I'm sure that the barking ruthless dogs that Ibn Taymiyyah phantom has fueled with abhorrement will snatch his meat out.
It is a dilema indeed. The government and many parents don't know what to do with it. How can we rid them all out from Ibn Taymiyyah?
We are at least saying it out Mr Farsiy. Just saying it out.

Thanks for your repply Brother,
We are all from the way of Ahli Sunna Wal Jama'a.Following Innovations and following New firqas may lead to Dhalala(Allah (swt) knows best)
I agree with you.I wanted also to say that  this issue was dilema.
  Brother "samsparky" tried to bring "proofs"(with red letters and etc) against him.But I see He did not even read my post on page 16 with references that clearly decribes why THose Ulamas accused him,there you can find there those accusitions were nothing more than lie-because of Jelousy. Thus those who deliver false information will be in same group with them.
   Let Allah rewards all Ulamas who gave their life only for the sake of Allah! And let us avoid bid'at,g'iybat and buhtan!!!

   this post was my last post in this forum.I enjoyed this forum even I was here for a short time.Sorry if I did annoy with my posts.

Happy Ramadan!!! Dear Brothers and sisters in Islam!

respectfully your brother in Islam "Salman Farsiy"
feel free if you want to contact me-

Jazakallah khairan

[samsparky]

HELLO MR "I claim to read people's posts properly but i don't really"

I actually quoted Ibn Taymiya out of his own book

i told u to check my references - it's clear that you didn't

[ottoman]

Praise be to Allah. I ask Allah humbly to raise the rank of Prophet Muhammad, his Al and Companions, and to protect his nation from that which he fears for it. I ask Allah to teach us that which we have forgotten, to add to our knowledge, and to grant us the sincere intentions. I humbly ask Allah to facilitate for us the routes of goodness and to protect us from the routes that lead to Hellfire. Thereafter:

 Prophet when a blind man came to address Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu alayhi wa sallam:

The blind man addressed the Prophet by saying, "O Prophet of Allah, ask Allah for me to cure my blindness." The Prophet replied by saying, "If you wish, you would be patient with your calamity, and if you wish, I will ask Allah to cure your blindness."

However, the blind man told the Prophet: "The loss of my sight is a great hardship for me, and there is no one near to guide me around."

At this moment, the Prophet ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al_wudu', pray two rak^ah, end his salat by saying as-salamu ^alaykum, and then say the following words:


<<O Allah, I ask You, and I direct myself to You in supplication by our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I direct myself to Allah by you, so my need [here the specific need is mentioned] would be fulfilled.>> The blind man went and did as the Prophet ordered. Shortly thereafter, he returned to the Prophet's session with his blindness cured.

Then, after the death of the Prophet, and during the time of the caliphate of ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan, a man came to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf. This man complained to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf about a matter which he needed to be fulfilled through the caliph, but which was not being fulfilled. ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered the man to go to the place where al-wudu' would be performed, perform al-wudu', perform two rak^ah, and after saying as_salam to say the following words: 'O Allah, I ask You and I direct myself to You in supplication by our Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I direct myself to Allah by you, so my need [specify need] would be fulfilled.

^Uthman Ibn Hunayf told him to return after doing this, and they would go together to the caliph. This man went and performed what ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf ordered him to do. However, instead of returning to ^Uthman Ibn Hunayf, he elected to go on his own to the caliph--which he did. When he reached the door of the caliph, the gateman took him by the hand to the caliph. ^Uthman Ibn ^Affans at him on a carpet next to him and asked him, "What is your need that you wanted fulfilled? I forgot all about it until just now." The man informed the caliph about his need, which he fulfilled. The caliph told him, "Whenever you have a need, come to me and I will satisfy it for you."

It is because of the prayer this man performed, and the du^a' that he made--asking Allah for his need by the Prophet--that Allah made the heart of the caliph move towards fulfilling the need of that man. This prayer and the du^a' afterwards in which one is asking Allah to fulfill a need is called 'Salat al-Hajah'. Let the one who has a need: perform al-wudu', pray two rak^ah, and then say that du^a' as mentioned, and in sha' Allah, his need will be fulfilled.

This hadith was narrated by many scholars of hadith. Some of them related the part of the hadith which occurred during the lifetime of the Prophet, and some narrated both parts of the hadith, i.e., the part which took place during the lifetime of the Prophet and the part which took place after his death and during the caliphate of Sayyidina ^Uthman Ibn ^Affan. Imam at_Tabaraniyy is among those scholars who narrated the entire hadith, in both parts--the part that took place during the life of the Prophet, as well as the part that took place after the death of the Prophet. After narrating that hadith, he said, "The classification of this hadith is sahih."

This hadith carries the proof that it is permissible in Islam for one to ask Allah for things by the Prophet during the lifetime of the Prophet and after the death of the Prophet. Hence, there is no difference in the permissibility of asking Allah for things by the Prophet, whether done during the lifetime of the Prophet or after his death. The scholars of Ahl as-Sunnah wal Jama^ah said that it is permissible to make that tawassul during the lifetime of the Prophet and after his death. Knowing that, one concludes that the claim of some people that it is not permissible to ask Allah for things except by he who is alive and present, is something which is rejected.

The first person to make this false claim was a man who lived some 600 years ago, by the name of Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah. This man falsely stated that it is not permissible to ask Allah for things except by he who is alive and present. This is wrong! It is contrary to what is stated in the rules of the Religion of Islam. During the time of Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah, scholars of Ahl as-Sunnah refuted his argument, and as a result his false claim did not spread at that time. However, some 200 years ago, a man named Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhab emerged in a place in the Arabian Peninsula called Najd which the Prophet dispraised. Al-Bukhariyy related a hadith about the Prophet in which he said:

<<From this spot, [which is called Najd] the tribulations and the sedition will occur.>> The Prophet conveyed the truth. Many tribulations and sedition have occurred from that region. Among the most recent was this man by the name of Muhammad Ibn ^Abdul-Wahhab. Muhammad Ibn ^Abdul-Wahhab followed Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah in the aforementioned case and in other cases as well. He started repeating the false statement of Ibn Taymiyah that it is not permissible for one to ask Allah for things except by he who is alive and present. This rule has no foundation whatsoever in the Religion of Allah. Rather, this rule and this statement were innovated by Ahmad Ibn Taymiyah__ an innovation of misguidance.

As a result of their stubbornness and arrogance, the leaders of the Wahhabiyyah movement rejected the part of the hadith which signifies the man asking Allah for things by the Prophet, after the Prophet's death. The great scholars of Ahl as-Sunnah told these people that the scholars classified that entire hadith as sahih, i.e., the part that took place during the lifetime of the Prophet and the part that took place after his death. Hence, one must reject the false claim of Ibn Taymiyah and Muhammad Ibn ^Abdul-Wahhab, because it stands against the sayings of those reliable and dependable scholars of hadith. Al_Hafidhat_Tabaran iyy narrated that hadith, among others, including al-Hafidh al-Bayhaqiyy and al-Hafidh as_Subkiyy and al_Hafidh al-^Ala'iyy; they all classified it as sahih. The status of those huffadh, i.e., their high knowledge and high level in the Science of Hadith, is a case of unanimous agreement among the scholars of Islam.

he is most dangerous man to din.