Topic: About slaughtering animals durring Hajj

[Ali]

Well its been interesting reading your "point of view" but thats all it is, interesting :bg

You really believe religious traditions involving sacrifice (Qurbani) of animals will be outlawed?

Think again :no2

[Devoted to Islam]

Peace and humane treatment and respect for all life is the only way to further mankind's success, i garuntee this is the way forward.

Al Shaddad Bin Aous has quoted this tradition of the Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H.) "God calls for mercy in everything, so be merciful when you kill and when you slaughter, sharpen your blade to relieve its pain".
Many allegations have been made that Islamic slaughter is not humane to animals. However, Professor Schultz and his colleague Dr. Hazim of the Hanover University, Germany, proved through an experiment, using an electroencephalogra ph (EEG) and electrocardiogram (ECG) that *Islamic slaughter is THE humane method of slaughter* and captive bolt stunning, practiced by the Western method, causes severe pain to the animal. The results surprised many.

[anti_faith]

:no2
Interesting it is, fact it is also.

Of course there will be disagreements in discussion here, but i know for a fact what i said is the only way forward in the future.
Religious traditions will be outlawed as they already have, unless religious places want to remain in mud-houses with no tv and modern life.
If the world is to harmonize and modernize it is through PEACE and humane actions.
I , and anyone, does not care what traditions of sacrifice for qurbani or habali or walalawallabaki. Whatever the reason, no sacrifices will be allowed in future. Maybe for now they will continue, but i garuntee it will be outlawed in the future, no matter where it is.

Eventually all the world goverments and peace will be instigated in all countries for the best of humanity, and sacrificing animals for silly tradition will be outlawed. At least in brutal methods, people still eat meat, and will still kill animals... but in a painless humane way from now on.
Someone might be allowed to still sacrifice using a peaceful method, but butchery will first be outlawed. And then eventually, the sacrifice will be outlawed totally. People can still eat meat at supermarkets, but sacrificing things is finished.
It is silly tradition that is harmful and wrong to the poor animal, and it will not continue im afraid.

It should be studied more, and whichever is the most painless way to kill an animal to eat should be done. Injection is probably most painless then a bolt or a knife,... the animals blood shouldnt be spilled i think.
And i garuntee in future (the far future) all 'sacrifices' will be banned.
It doesnt matter who ordered the sacrifice whether its god or the king of the world, no slaughtering or sacrificing will be done, it is a horrid act with no scientific outcome from it except death of the innocent animal.

No innocent deaths of any living thing is permitted in todays world, and the future. That is the hard fact.
And like this, religion will slowly be excused from exsisting on this planet.
Religion is old and out of date or use. If you go back a thousand years, you will find many people slaughtering and sacrificing all types of life every day, now it is reduced (thankfully) to a few kills, and eventually all sacrifices will be outlawed, and the most humane method to kill for eating meat will be established hopefully, no doubt.

 :wave2

[Hanan]

:stumped

Human beings do not constitute the ordinary food chain cycle in their majority current state. And the human being has the upper hand, benefits, and choice of what he does in the world (having the ability of larger intelligence). He doesnt need to slaughter innocent animals, and no animals should be slaughtered. Even If they are needed to be eaten, they should be killed in a painless way, using gas or injection prehaps.
 :yippee  :apl1

the point behind slaughtering the animal (and becareful not any knid of animal  :no2 ) by knife from the nick is that is the most correct method in order to get rid of all the blood that is in the body of the animal .. which may consists some bacteria and germs that may affect your health. but when killing the animal by unjection we are not purifying the meat from all that bad bacteria and germs .. which cause us a lot of diseases ...

 and who told you that slaughtering is a painfull way to kill the animal ..it is proved by scientist that there is a vein in the nick which if it cut, the living being will be dead at once .. and he will not feel anything after that ... and that excatly what our religion is telling us to do when we slaughter the animal.. you may be saw the animal shakes alot after it is slaughter from thenick .. these shakes don't means that the animal is in pain .. what really happens is (and that by science) that when you cut that vein .. there are direct signals from the brains that indicate a shortage in blood circulation and there is no more blood coming to the brains .. so the brain send signals to the heart to push more blood from all over the body to the brain and by this way all the blood is coming out of the body . and because of that these shakes happened to the animal but he is really already dead... so our way of slaughtering the animal is not painful at all .. in the fact it is very mercful and for the good of the animal and ourselves .. because Allah always wants us to eat and drink all what is good for our body and health .. and not to eat a food that may ruin our body and make us sick ..

[anti_faith]

Prehaps cutting at the neck is most humane (i dont study or know the results of types of torture thank goodness!).

But whatever way is most humane, the knife is in the past. No knives or blood spilling is allowed in todays modern world.
I should hope, and all good people will hope a more safer method without blood spilling or pain will be produced, like i suggested something like injection.

I am sure there is an easier way to get rid of blood AFTER you kill the animal, not whilst it is alive for goodness sake  :mad !

I should be deceased and left the blood to drain ONCE it has been killed not before hand  :no2

"who told you that slaughtering is a painfull way to kill the animal"

You dont need to be a scientist to know when your cut you get pain and get scared. Shall i slice your throat with a knife and let your blood drain while you have a slow death and see if your not scared or in pain?  :mad

It is cruel and surely the animal would be scared even if its not in pain.
That is all their is to it, it will be finished soon hopefully.

I have seen the live killing by throat, and the animal does not always die instantly,... eitherway, an animal can see the sharp object and feel people crushing it and holding it to keep still, it would get frightened, it is wrong.

Would you be happy and smiling if big giants bigger then you broke in your house (cage) in the night with shiny sharp objects (animals can detect sharp things mean danger) , grabbed you and dragged you out and cut you ?

'TREAT OTHERS AS YOU WOULD YOURSELVES.'

This saying applies to EVERYTHING. If someone hurts you,... consider your retaliation, if you want to kill them for it, would you like them to kill you also? No. So you treat them how you would yourself, and ignore them and stop them using law not terrorism.
The same applys to animals, if you wouldnt want to have such a procedure on you, then dont do it to animals.

Make no mistake, if big giants with knives came into your house, you would be >>>  :notme  :what??  :woops  :booh  :cwt  :cwt  :cwt  :cwt  :cwt  :cwt <<< Like that.

Let me also make it clear, that religion is a guide, for EARLY mankind, i am talking 3000+ years ago, RELIGION IS FINISHED.

Its relavance in todays modern world is absolutely nothing.

It was created by man, for man, as a guide and piece of light during those early dark ages.

"you may be saw the animal shakes alot after it is slaughter from thenick .. these shakes don't means that the animal is in pain"

Again, lets bring you and your friends like the group of goats or sheep, and i will cut your friends throat and he will shake, and see if you feel scared, and no doubt.... in his mind before his brain dies, even if its a short moment, he would be terrified and choking on his blood.

Besides whether it hurts or not, IT IS INHUMANE!

If children see people cutting animals throats and blood going everywhere, how will they feel ? >> :cwt << What would they think?
They would think, if they can do it so can everyone, its fine to cut animals throats, lets cut others, lets do everything by knife and violence.

 :mad

'TREAT OTHERS (and all living things) AS YOU WOULD YOURSELVES.'

[Hanan]

You dont need to be a scientist to know when your cut you get pain and get scared. Shall i slice your throat with a knife and let your blood drain while you have a slow death and see if your not scared or in pain?

there is a difference ...if it is a normal cut it is surely painful .. but if you slaughter the animal like what we are muslims do ..it would not be like that ..once you cut that vein .. the animal is dead .. so it will not feel scared while his blood drained ..

then you are the one that doesn't want to refere to the religion .. so I brought for you the science opinion on the salughtery .. and there is no other effective way that will let you get the rid of allthe blood except this way - and it is proved by science-

I have seen the live killing by throat, and the animal does not always die instantly,... .

If they  cut it in the right way it die instantly

eitherway, an animal can see the sharp object and feel people crushing it and holding it to keep still, it would get frightened, it is wrong

If we go for injection as you said .. how you are going to inject him ..if you are not holding the animal and keep him steady to be sure that you inject him in the right place.. it is the same to us we hold it to be sure that when we slaughter it ..it will be in the right place and will not cause him that much pain.

Would you be happy and smiling if big giants bigger then you broke in your house (cage) in the night with shiny sharp objects (animals can detect sharp things mean danger) , grabbed you and dragged you out and cut you ?

You are mixing things here .. we are human ... and these animals are our food ..and Allah allows us to eat them ...besides it is the same as your concept .. would you be happy if someone come and holds you and kill you by injection or gass (is this a human way to kill :stumped )..

Let me also make it clear, that religion is a guide, for EARLY mankind, i am talking 3000+ years ago, RELIGION IS FINISHED.

the religion can not be finished .. what is here in the modern life as you say that could regulate our life .. and make us live safe and secure .. why the crime of rape and burglery here in islamic countries is  alot less than in the non islamic countries.. Why I can walk in the night by myself in a dark street in my country without the fear that someone will appear and hurt or kill me .. Why I can let my house door open all the day without being scared that someone will come and attack me in my home ..All of that becasue WE HAVE A RELIGION THAT IS FORBIDING US AND TEACHING US WHAT IS RIGHT AND WHAT IS WRONG .. AND THAT WE FEAR THE PUNISHMENT IN THE HEREAFTER ...but look at the non islamic countries how the crime rates is rising and how they are scared in their own home ..even with they lock their doors.

Again, lets bring you and your friends like the group of goats or sheep, and i will cut your friends throat and he will shake, and see if you feel scared, and no doubt.... in his mind before his brain dies, even if its a short moment, he would be terrified and choking on his blood.

First in our religion it is forbidden to slaughter an animal in front of the other animals .. because we know how that will affect the other ones ... and again I will say once you cut the vein in the nick the animal will die directly -- that if you cut right...

If children see people cutting animals throats and blood going everywhere, how will they feel ? >>  << What would they think?

When we are raising our children .. we are teaching them the difference between salughtering an animal for food .. and between killing a human being ..and noway they will think that killing a human is like slaughtering an animal.. because again WHAT REGULATE US IS OUR RELIGION that let us see what is the difference between human and animals, and how to treat each of them ...

[Servant of Islam]

 anti_faith is banned now for using improper language and for her mockery of religon and the members, in this thread and others.

[Madam_Rouge]

:bonk: Slaughtering the lamb/goat/ram was a judaic ritual, that later died out after the abolision of the mosaic law. I dont know why this ritual is still taking place today, and in my opinion there is no HUMANE way of slaughtering an animal. But we can not allow ourselves to become veggie freaks who think that eating meat is wrong but eating veggies isnt. Vegetables are still living things and they do feel pain. There is no humane way of killing vegetation. I just think that symbolic acts of faith border line pagan rituals and should be closely examined. Theres lots of things going on in todays societies that has been associated with acient pagan rituals and beliefs and we should watch what we are doing and examine it closely in order not to be commiting kafir. :gallery:

[Sumayya]

What I know is that off course animals won't be happy to be slaughtered, but the important thing is that it's lawful, and that's what really matters for me...

Madam-Rouge, what an extraordinary nick :-)

[samsparky]

I don't know how these people think.

If you don't eat vegetables or meat then what exactly will you eat?

We were taught through the Prophets of God that there are animals and plants that are here on this earth as food for others.

God is the Creator of everything and He is the One Who created these particular edible animals and edible plants for us.

vegetables don't have a soul - that is why they are not alive.

Animals do have a soul (they are resurrected on Judgement Day) but they do not have ^aql (it's like understanding - it's in the heart and partly in the brain.) Humans have ^aql.