Topic: Are all prayers answered?/2

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi Full Moon you said: God guaranteed that it will be protected from any alteration and he is the powerful and we believe him.

Well if God is so powerful why did he not preserve the original. Why does he need a new version. The versions that there are of the bible are translations from the original greek. They are not different books, just like if I was to read the Koran in english it  has to be translated from the Arabic language. There are some deliberately fabricated bibles, that were made up by people to fit their own world view, but all sensible Christian scholars disagree with them. The New Word Translation is one such example. No knowledgable greek Scholar agrees with them. Again I return to my original statment. There have been archalogical finds that have found both complete and fragments of the bible dating well before Mahummad, and they are not altered from what we have today. There is no scientific justification for saying that the bible is in error. It was just an opinion help by Mahummad.

[The Full Moon]

FutureAndHope

Come on, every one known that there are many many books of bibles and non the same.
It is your claim that God promised to preserve it... where is that mentioned and in which copy?

God promised to preserve the Quran and it is still and will stay and remain one and only one.

Sorry you cannot win this one, I know people who converted to Islam just for this reason.

[FutureAndAHope]

Hi Full Moon,

Here is a verse in the bible that says scripture is preserved.  2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

But Just becasue a person says it is what makes you so sure. I can go down to the book shop and buy books from the Greeks, Romans, ect all are preserved, but does that make them Holy. Preservation means nothing. You are still not understanding, the bible has original greek manuscripts that predate Mahummad by hundreds of years, that have not altered from what we have today. Infact todays bibles are based upon them. Do you think they just pull bible out of the air. They are based upon original manuscripts, all of which predate Mahummad. I am curious, have you studied what the science of archialogicy is, yes or no?

[The Full Moon]

No I did not study archialogicy.

Still I am wondering who dares explaining and alterning the words of God . Muslims do not dare doing such a thing. His words are sacred and holy. Why christian felt they have the right to do something like that instead of preserving and coping the original?

Give my brain a break... you have the original but the new bibles are based on the original? Are we talking about a story that has part one and two and anyone and everyone can add and change and explain years after years this is done

You are giving us the impression that there is one original bible ... then you should now the answers to the following questions :
Where is it.. who wrote it and when?

[FutureAndAHope]

You said: You are giving us the impression that there is one original bible ... then you should now the answers to the following questions :
Where is it.. who wrote it and when?

I guess you are assuming the bible is in error, or that we need one special copy of our book, but there are over 4,000 Greek manuscripts; 13,000 copies of portions of the New Testament in Greek (which is the original language it was written in)! There are thousands more New Testament Greek manuscripts than any other ancient writing.  The internal consistency of the New Testament documents is about 99.5% textually pure. Meaning from all the manuscripts found they are all 99.5% the same, with only 0.5% variation, i.e. spelling errors, grammer, a sentence here or there. That is an amazing accuracy.  In addition there are over 19,000 copies in the Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and Aramaic languages.  The total supporting New Testament manuscript base is over 24,000. There are a vast number of these manuscripts that have been scientifically dated as written before your prophet was even born. Do you know what scientific dating is, and it is not finding a good woman. 

So we have 24,000 copies, that are 99.5% the same. That is not corrupted. So why do you think that I am a fool? Do you think I base my belief on nothing. I have a book that is 99.5% pure, I told you before that our pastors, and I have as well, have healed the sick in Jesus name, many have raised the dead back to life. All with this cause to tell others to live justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with God. What am I doing wrong. Telling people to love others. When I say love it leaves no room for hate. No physical hurt to anyone. Jesus said love even your enemies. Why does God give our church as a whole power, I am not saying we see miracles every day, but I have seen them, some see them more than others, and in varying degrees of spiritual power. Is it not because we follow the real God. I am not saying people have never committed crimes in the name of Christ, but it does not mean they were really following God. Many people are decieved into acts of violence, and injustice. But the true God calls everyone to change their ways and live.

Note what the bible says:  And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. -1Co 12:28

If God did not do these things, i.e. work miracles then I would be a fool to be a christian, but I am no fool, I have seen these things and believe others who have told me the things they have seen.

 Paul said - What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. Php 3:8-9

He was saying he had been bought up to follow the strict requirements of the law as a Jew. Yet once he knew how great, and how wonderful God really was he abondoned his way of thinking, which was previously that he in his human efforts could obtain godliness, but rather trusted in Jesus to justify him from his sin (as none is with out sin), and furthermore give him the power over his sin by giving him the Holy Spirit so he can live a holy life - putting off the old man, and allowing God's power to work through him to suppress the lusts, and deciepts of the body and satan, now he had a relationship with the living all powerful God, he saw his old legalistic way of pleasing God  by his own efforts as rubbish.

[The Full Moon]

So No original copy?

And you are mentioning that let me make them over a million human agreed on that they are claiming it is 99.5% pure, if it has .0001 percent not pure then it was preverted and how as human we know which part was changed?

You confirmed what what we say as Muslims, there is no true bible written at this time.

Therefore: excuse me but I cannot take any quotation you claim it is from the bible, since not one true copy exist.

So as a Christian you are not following what Jesus said because you are not 100% sure that any part or which part of the 19000 copies is what God had sent to Jesus.

And Please do not insult our intelligence because I read the old testaments and the new testaments and they are very different.

[FutureAndAHope]

You said, "And Please do not insult our intelligence because I read the old testaments and the new testaments and they are very different.".

Then why do you beleive that your prophet is telling the truth, because they are very different to his stories, yet he said they were all messangers of God. Take for instance moses law regarding theft he said a thief was to pay back double what he stole, i.e. work untill he had paid it off. Yet your prophet just goes around lopping of womens hands. How is that sensible they are maimed and disabled for life, how will they make a living or support them selves with only one hand. There is no option for repentance. Moses command was from God, why did your man change it?

The fact is if you are taught correctly you will find the old testiment tells of Jesus. Jesus said it himself he said "  For if ye believed Moses, ye would believe me; for he wrote of me. " - Joh 5:46

Moses was told by God to perform animal sacrifices for sin, which was said to be a picture of what was taking place in heaven, it was according to God the only way a person could be forgiven, by trusting in the sacrifices. Joh 6:51, when John the baptist saw Jesus he said, "The lamb that takes away the sin of the world", lambs were sacrificed for sin by Moses.  Jesus when he was on earth he said "  I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world". The bible every where says Jesus died for our sins as a sacrifice, and that it is the only way to be forgiven. There are volumes written about this sacrifice and also how it related to moses commands in the desert.

You don't keep Moses command. Why are all the books so wrong, all the prophets writtings agree with me, the power, the purposes of God. You say both the old and new testiment are wrong. Let me ask you how is it that God could not protect the hundreds of prophets writtings, could not protect Jesus words, even though I told you it is 99.5% pure. Why is your one lone prophet so right when he disagrees with all the other prophets, just because he says he knew they were wrong. Yet archeology says they are all fine. Why do you have such a lack of faith in God, that he could not keep his word pure. Sounds like a devil to me. Altering all the words of God, being harsh with people, whipping, stoning, severing heads, slaying unbelievers, having sexual slaves.  What kind of example is that to set for children.  Show no mercy, it is ok to take prisioners and make them sex slaves. Greater revelation, NO WAY? I know what I will be teaching my kid 10 years from now, keep loving others, show them kindness, show them how much God loves them, read the word of God, and live it fully. God has shown me love and kindness, and I pray that he will also do the same for you. You need to be a totally loving and kind individual, you can't mix evil with good, God is just not like that. I pray he keeps me on the true path of faith, that every step be kept perfect, that I never loose sight of Gods love, for truely although I know you are fully convinced of your religion, it is an abomination to me. You say you are protecting people from hell, in reality you are just sending people there. Where is your power, how many people have you healed, how many of your teachers have risen the dead, we still do what all the prophets did display Gods kindness, and He some times allows us to display his power. From my side of the fence, I sincerly hope you are not foolish in hanging onto tradition, and ignoring the truth about God. Be honest a single man, whos only (supposed) miracle was to pray for rain, and it flooded a village. What sort of God is that lots of care pouring out from that one. See how perverted God was in his eyes, a harsh God, who did not love his people but rather punished them for praying to him. And I mean seriously how much rain would you need in a desert to flood a village, again a foolish made up story, by a false prophet. Our prophets still do what Jesus did, heal the sick, raise the dead, give to the poor, try our best to love others. I have read some of the stories out of your books, and they are total folly. You might have one book, but it is a stupid one. Where is your power. Godless, murderer, cutting off hands, severing heads, making wars in the earth. Your religion has nothing of God, what do I have to do with you satan. He was a murderer from the beginning. Follow him to hell if you wish. Tell me I am unreasonable. Yet again where is your power, why harm others. Don't tell me you harm people to save them from hell. Hell is for those who harm others. Tell me why I should cease to love others and start cutting off hands?  You must be joking, what kind of a man do you think I am, abandone all the miracles God has done, all the kindness he has shown me to follow a book filled with words alone. Give me one good reason why I should become a Muslum? No power, no love, no God.

[The Full Moon]

again and again and again

FutureAndHope

So this is how you refer to Prophet of God (your man) He is the massenger of God. Jews did not believe in Prophet Jesus and ment to harm him.. so your not believing in Prophet Muhammad does not hurt him but it does hurts you.

Did Moses come with the same rules of Jesus .. No . some are the same but some are different like the rule of sabat (saturday) one every saturday the can not earn living by working or trading... now remind me why does Christian do not follow the same rule?

Oh yes, I just remembered... because Jesus came with a different rules from God, Our Allah who we should all follow his orders.

Allah revieled to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him what it means : (5:3)

Forbidden to you is carrion, that is, the consumption of it, and blood, that is, what has been spilt, as mentioned in [sūrat] al-An‘ām [Q. 6:145], and the flesh of swine, and what has been hallowed to other than God, in that it was sacrificed in the name of something other than Him, and the beast strangled, to death, and the beast beaten down, to death, and the beast fallen, from a height to its death, and the beast gored, to death by another, and what beasts of prey have devoured, of such animals — except for what you have sacrificed duly, catching it while it still breathes life and then sacrificing it — and what has been sacrificed in, the name of, idols (nusub is the plural of nusāb) and that you apportion, that is, that you demand an oath or a ruling, through the divining of arrows (azlām: the plural of zalam or zulam, which is a qidh, ‘a small arrow’, without feathers or a head). There were seven of these [arrows], [marked] with flags, and they were retained by the keeper of the Ka‘ba. They would use them for abitrations and when they commanded them they obeyed, and if they prohibited them they would desist; that is wickedness, a rebellion against obedience. And on the Day of ‘Arafa in the year of the Farewell Pilgrimage, the following was revealed:

Today the disbelievers have despaired of your religion, of you apostatising from it, having hoped for it [earlier], for now they perceived its strength; therefore do not fear them, but fear Me. Today I have perfected your religion for you, that is, its rulings and obligations (after this [verse] nothing about [what is] lawful or unlawful was revealed) and I have completed My favour upon you, by perfecting it [your religion], but it is also said by [effecting] their safe entry into Mecca; and I have approved, chosen, Islam for you as religion. But whoever is constrained by emptiness, by hunger, to consume some of what has been forbidden him and consumes it, not inclining purposely to sin, to an act of disobedience — then God is Forgiving, to him for what he has consumed, Merciful, to him by permitting it to him, in contrast to the one who [purposely] inclines to sin, that is, the one actively engaged in it, such as a waylayer or a criminal, for whom [such] consumption is forbidden.

Are the prayers or fasting of the Jews are similar to the prayers and fasting of the Christians? No ! because God (Allah) changed the way they are preformed and his books were different as well as his rulings.

You do not understand Islam but you see it throw the threating teaching of your teachers.


Give yourself a chance and learn about Islam and you will find that the God we beleave in is very merciful and loving and his Prophet is as good as they come