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Author Topic: Who were هَارُوتَ وَمَارُوتَ Haroot and Maroot? Angels! NO  (Read 4958 times)

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Offline Mazhar

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Who were هَارُوتَ وَمَارُوتَ Haroot and Maroot?
Were they two angels or two men of authority

              Grand Qur'an, while giving an account of the psyche and conduct of Bani Israel in time and space, has disclosed that:
وَاتَّبَعُواْ مَا تَتْلُواْ الشَّيَاطِينُ عَلَى مُلْكِ سُلَيْمَانَ
"And they started pursuing what the evil ones narrated in the kingdom of  Suleiman".
This is the news regarding the physical conduct of some members of community, named Bani Israel; and what they followed/pursued in action was not something stated by pious men or angels but it were the assertions of Satan-natured people made in the kingdom of Suleiman.
وَمَا كَفَرَ سُلَيْمَانُ وَلَـكِنَّ الشَّيَاطِينَ كَفَرُواْ
{Ill doings of evil mongers do not implicate the Ruler therefore} It was not Suleiman who denied [to abhor magic in line with teaching of Musa] but it were the evil-ones {in his kingdom} who denied.
It is told that Suleiman had not refused/denied; refusal and denial is always about something believed/or asked. By giving this news it has been clarified that what someone attributes to Suleiman regarding his denial is factually incorrect. In fact it were evil mongers who had denied. What was that which they denied? Action/conduct of people reflects regarding what they accept and what they deny/refuse. What were Satan-natured people doing?
يُعَلِّمُونَ النَّاسَ السِّحْرَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى الْمَلَكَيْنِ بِبَابِلَ هَارُوتَ وَمَارُوتَ
They were telling people the art of creating illusions [magic tricks] AND such things as someone had transpired [perhaps hypnosis] to الْمَلَكَيْنِ Harut and Marut at Babylon.
The word أُنزِلَ is الماضى المجهول, past, passive, singular masculine third person. "that what descended upon the two مَلَكَيْنِ" Its Root is ن ز ل and basic perception infolded is to descend from above. It is used to deliver to someone something from external source. Words derived from this Root have been used in the Grand Quran for 293 times and nowhere it is used with relation to descending something upon مَلَآئِكَةٌ . They themselves descend and are the carriers for descending things/messages/book  upon others.           
الْمَلَكَيْنِDualتثنية[Two] : معرفة with definite article ال. This word can be derived either from Arabic Root أ ل ك or  م ل ك
The basic perception/meaning infolded in the Arabic Root أ ل ك is "chewed or champed-the process of biting,  or grinding something vigorously, noisily, or the sound that this makes"; a message or communication sent from one person/party to another.
For conveying the message to someone the messenger needs to retrieve the message from memory. The message will come to the messenger's chest, the vocal cord will be vibrated creating/converting/translating the message into sound which will have to be articulated in the mouth with the help of two lips and tongue before the messenger could  emit/throw [يَلْفِظُ ] from the mouth shaping it in the words of the language of person for whom the message was intended.
The statistics of words derived from this Root mentioned in the Grand Qur'an is as under:-
The word مَلَكٌ has appeared 6 times [6:08, 50; 11:12,31; 12:31; 25:07]
The word مَلَكًا  has appeared 3 times [/][6:08, 09; 17:95]
The word مَّلَكُ has appeared once in [32:11][/]
The word مَالِكُ [with injector يَا} has appeared once [43:77} Only Angels are Guardians of Hell.[/]
The word مَّلَكٍ has appeared once [53:26][/]
The word الْمَلَكُ has appeared twice [69:17; 89:22][/]
The word الْمَلاَئِكَةِ has appeared 25 times[/]
The word الْمَلآئِكَةُ has appeared 33 times[/]
The word الْمَلاَئِكَةَ has appeared 9 times[3:80;6:11;15:08;16:02; 25:22;37:150;39:75;43:19;53:27][/]
The word مَلَآئِكَةٌ   has appeared twice [17:95; 66:06][/]
The word مَلَائِكَةً   has appeared 4 times[23:24;41:14;43:60; 74:31][/]
           الْمَلَكَيْنِDualتثنية[Two] has been used apart from for Haroot and Maroot it has only once been in the Grand Quran and that is with reference to the Root م ل ك.
َقَالَ مَا نَهَاكُمَا رَبُّكُمَا عَنْ هَـذِهِ الشَّجَرَةِ
Iblis said ; "Your Sustainer Lord has not restrained both you two from this particular female tree
إِلاَّ أَن تَكُونَا مَلَكَيْنِ
except for reason that you both might become two rulers
أَوْ تَكُونَا مِنَ الْخَالِدِينَ
or you both attain/become  perpetual beings. {Refer 07:20]
It is a matter of common sense that telling a man, that restriction is imposed for fear of his becoming an angel, cannot create any sensation and fascination for a man who already knows that he is superior to angels since all the angels collectively have already bowed before him. Notwithstanding  Iblis suffers from delusion of grandeur he is not such a fool to have suggested such non sensational thing for deception.
           Iblis unfolded/told them two possible reasons for the imposition of restriction, and both were such which could arouse a fascinating desire/hope. One cannot forget/become unmindful of some earlier command/data in memory unless some fascinating matter/desire veils it.To be amongst مَلَكَيْنِ one needs to have territory/kingdom مُلْكٍ , and the fact that it means NOT angels but Ruler is evident how these two speculative assertions were repeated by Iblis, individually to Adam, as stated in Surah Taha, 20:120
فَوَسْوَسَ إِلَيْهِ الشَّيْطَانُ قَالَ يَا آدَمُ هَلْ أَدُلُّكَ عَلَى شَجَرَةِ الْخُلْدِ وَمُلْكٍ لَّا يَبْلَى "For deceiving, he fascinated him by saying, " Adam, may I guide/lead/disclose  you the tree of perpetual  existence/permanence and مُلْكٍ the kingdom that never fades/ weakens/ decays? "            It is thus manifest that مَلَكَيْنِ is from the Root  م ل كmeaning Ruler of a territory/people.

Offline The Full Moon

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:salam1


Dear Mazhar;

It would be very helpful if you can kindly put your questions and wonders in straight questions because what you posted did not help us pinpoint your request.

Now; I do not know how much information you are looking for.  I can tell you a long story about why these two came, or I tell you a short answer about who they were.

Not knowing what you are expecting I will take the short route first:

Long time ago, people started to believe that some people can tell the future or can do magic.

So people started to presume and accuse prophets that they are one of these two groups and not messengers of Allah.

Therefore, Allah sent to this earth two angles : Haroot and Maroot.. to teach people that magic is haram and to show them how it is done. They taught them how to distinguish between magic and miracles the prophets preform, (which are nothing like magic).

So they came because it was necessary for people to know the difference between magic and miracles.
To know how magic was done.
 To believe that prophets are coming with the truth not with tricks
And, that it's haram to believe or preform or assist in magic tricks or predicting the future.

Salam

Offline Mazhar

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Therefore, Allah sent to this earth two angles : Haroot and Maroot.. to teach people that magic is haram and to show them how it is done. They taught them how to distinguish between magic and miracles the prophets preform, (which are nothing like magic).

How can one say such a thing wherein not a single point has any truth in it. Neither were they angels, nor anywhere it is mentioned that in the entire human history any Messenger said that السِّحْرَ is haram.
And Haroot and Maroot were not telling people about  السِّحْرَ  but some thing other than this which people used to delude husband and wife to break their bondage of Nikah.

Offline The Full Moon

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How can one say such a thing wherein not a single point has any truth in it. Neither were they angels, nor anywhere it is mentioned that in the entire human history any Messenger said that السِّحْرَ is haram.
And Haroot and Maroot were not telling people about  السِّحْرَ  but some thing other than this which people used to delude husband and wife to break their bondage of Nikah.

ٍDear Brother

Someone would say that if they got the blessing of learning about this subject from a trustworthy people.

Quran meanings are not a simple translation of words put together. Only scholars can give the meanings of any ayat, and that is what they said about this surat.

There are many Hadiths, and the major scholars confirmed that preforming or seeking the help of magician is Haram and it can in somecases reach into blasphemy.

Haroot and Maroot in the surah: they taught magic which part of it would cause the seperation between a husband and his wife and worned them from performing that magic.

Brother
An advise from a sincer hart, seek knowledge from trustworthy people and not from reading a book which can not give you an answer to your questions.

At the end, be assured that magic is Haram.


Offline Mazhar

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At the end, be assured that magic is Haram.

Kindly quote some reference because Quran has in plain and simple words instructed not to say such and such is haram.

Offline The Full Moon

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Dear Mazhar;

   
From Quran : this is a close translation of the meaning of the ayah
[2:102]   They pursued what the devils taught concerning Solomon's kingdom. Solomon, however, was not a disbeliever, but the devils were disbelievers. They taught the people sorcery, and that which was sent down through the two angels of Babel, Haroot and Maroot. These two did not divulge such knowledge without pointing out: "This is a test. You shall not abuse such knowledge." But the people used it in such evil schemes as the breaking up of marriages.  They can never harm anyone against the will of GOD. They thus learn what hurts them, not what benefits them, and they know full well that whoever practices witchcraft will have no share in the Hereafter. Miserable indeed is what they sell their souls for, if they only knew.

-2-
from Hadth : (a close translation)
Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) said - “Whoever blows on knots practices magic, and whoever practices magic is a mushrik (Tabrani)

-3-
The consensus of the Muslim Scholars:
All scholars are unanimous in their decision that a person becomes a disbeliever/kafir whether they practices magic themselves or whether they go to a magician to have magic performed for them.
 

Offline Mazhar

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know full well that whoever practices witchcraft will have no share in the Hereafter. Miserable indeed is what they sell their souls for, if they only knew.
[/]


 
Asalmo Alaikum,
 
Brother, Arabic word السِّحْرَ has nothing to do with the concept 'whichcraft". It is a great mistake that some English translators under the influence of Christian literature employed this word. Quran has elaborately defined what is السِّحْرَ that is, creating visual illusions through trick of arranging objects in such a manner that the onlooker perceives a perception contrary to the actual physical fact. I will post seperate thread about it later by quoting all the Ayat of Quran . [/]

But this thread is only about the word الْمَلَكَيْنِ which may please be read and tell me how it can be translated as "two angels" in the presence of the information given therein.

Offline The Full Moon

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Dear Mazhar

From surat Al-Isra 16 ayah 95

   
  قل لو كان في الارض ملائكة يمشون مطمئنين لنزلنا عليهم من السماء ملكا[/] رسولا  
Say, "If the earth were inhabited by angels, we would have sent down to them from the sky an angel messenger."
 

Offline Mazhar

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Dear Mazhar

From surat Al-Isra 16 ayah 95

   
  قل لو كان في الارض ملائكة يمشون مطمئنين لنزلنا عليهم من السماء ملكا[/] رسولا  
Say, "If the earth were inhabited by angels, we would have sent down to them from the sky an angel messenger."
 
This is the 17th not 16. Reference of it has already been included above.
The word مَلَكًا  has appeared 3 times [/][6:08, 09; 17:95]
The word مَّلَكُ has appeared once in [32:11][/]
The word مَالِكُ [with injector يَا} has appeared once [43:77} Only Angels are Guardians of Hell.[/]
The point which has been clarified is that many people have taken "malakayn" as dual for angels only because of "fatha" on consonant "laam" while Quran has also applied "kasra" hereمَالِكُ [with injector يَا} [/]has appeared once [43:77} and it is certainly for an angel sinceonly Angels are Guardians of Hell. And in dual "fatah" is there for rulers by explicitly relating it to "Mulk" i.e. territory/people over which one rules.[/]

Offline The Full Moon

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Dear Mazhar

Malek مَالِك is a name of an angel
but in alFateha مالِك يوم الدين  means "Master of the Day of Judgment"
In Arabic same word may have many different meanings which cleared by the rest of the sentence.
--
In Arabic language (مَ لََ ك ) means angle, (مَ ل ِ ك ) means king.


 



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