Topic: Living in Non-Muslim lands: What's the excuse?

[tariqibn]

What is the excuse for Muslims that live in non-Muslims lands and have the means to leave?? What is the excuse for a Muslim to move to a non Muslim land and avoid moving to a land of Muslims??

Muslim staying in non-Muslim lands

Any Muslim that is born or residing in a non-Muslim land, what gives him the excuse to reside among corruption..??
After a man has the means to leave why does he not leave??
Is it the fact that Muslims become fat and lazy after leaving or living in a fattening environment and have no motive or are too comfortable to go??
Do the Muslims find it permissible at all in the least to live among musriks and disbeliever in the least bit???


How about the Muslims that leave their homelands to go to a non-Muslim state?? What is their excuse?? How rare is it that a man in his homeland would be oppressed in his homeland for Islam.. You hear that excuse often but how true is it that a man is being oppressed and the only land he can leave to is a country of even more evils and ill as their are no lands of Muslims to escape to?? How many use the excuse that their is no work in their lands only to relocate to a land of spiritual poverty where work is non existent for a Muslims but is wealthy in evils and immorality...?? How could these same so called Muslims make this excuse in the least??

[curioustraveler]

Brother you fail to see the rreal reason for lviing in a land of infidels. Only by seeing the perfection of Islam up close will these infidels embrace the truth. I think only the selfish and lazy remain in MUslim coutries, they need to spread the will of Allah to all the pitiful infidels. So what is your excuse?     IS it not the truth that one day all of this world will embrace ISLAM? 

[tariqibn]

subbanallah may allah forgive you for your ignorance.. we are not talking about going to a land to visit for dawah we are talking about the muslims that leave muslims and go to live in non muslim lands under their kufr laws paying taxes and such to the same goverment thats killing muslims and nevr come back to the muslim lands.. how in the world do you justify that?,may allah forgive you for you extreme state of ignorance and may allah save your soul from the deepest depths of the jannaham

[curioustraveler]

If you are born in a land of infidels, you must leave it? Is that what you are saying?

[curioustraveler]

you said"
What is the excuse for Muslims that live in non-Muslims lands and have the means to leave??"

I was born in a non muslim land i have limited means, I could move to a muslim land, but brother tell me where is there a muslim land? Where is it, iraq,iran,KSA? Tell me oh wise tariqbn, where would you have me settle?

[tariqibn]

your mentality is flawed first off you have to know that yes you must leave...

secondly is where will you go??
I will tell you that you must find any land WHERE THE SIN IS OF LESSER VALUE until you reach the land where the sin is at the lowest in the world... a muslim must live with muslims to practice his deen in the best way.. I cannot give you a perfect answer and you obviously know that.. there is no reason why you should act in this ignorant manner calling me things like o wise one.. i beleve this is insulting and you should know betterto ask allah where the best place is for you to leave to... i am only here to tell you that you should leave to a land of lesser evil choose the lesser lands of two evils and you should be able to judge by that alone and my allah make your descion easy for you..

[whatislam]

i don't agree with this idea of "us" and "them".  we are all one!!!  if ones religion is lessening one's love for ANY fellow man then i think one cannot be doing God's work.

there are many people within non-Muslim countries who would be DELIGHTED if all the muslims went back to their original countries.  absolutely DELIGHTED.  in the UK there is a party called the National Front and i would imagine that they will agree with you whole-heartedly (even probably pay for the flights - if they could be assured that there was NO CHANCE of these Muslims coming back to the UK ever, ever, ever) because for them that would mean --- no more bombs on tubes, trains or buses.  no acceptance of women being beaten or female children being denied access to education or health or forced child-marriage or unjust practices trying to sneak into the UK through the back door...  all of these practices that seem barbaric and unjust and backward and cruel and repressive and denying basic human rights to half the population.  there would be no women walking around in black chadoors and who can tell whether that is a woman or a man or a potential terrorist?  they would be delighted to agree with your point of view but it is such a narrow-minded, hate-filled point of view, i feel.

i agree with dnasims when he says fairly that God will not discriminate against him for being born in the United States.  If God discriminates at all - then i would say he would discriminate on what is in people's hearts and if their hearts are full of hate toward their brothers and sisters (no matter what caste, creed or colour) then he will be hurt and disappointed.  because as you do to one of those - so you do to Him.

Love thy God with all thy heart and love thy NEIGHBOUR as thyself.

but LOVE not hate.  COMPASSION not judgement.  SERENITY not anger.  ONENESS not division.  TRUTH not lies.  HELP not hurt.
 

[whatislam]

surely it must be better to smile and offer a helping hand to someone in distress - than to turn one's back or cause the suffering in the first place.

we are not just these bodies.

we are spirit and that spirit is as one - in everyone.  if i hurt you, i hurt myself surely?

i don't know whether muslims believe that?  perhaps not.  otherwise how could there be all this domestic violence and fraternal violence and just violence --- sometimes i find it EXTREMELY dispiriting reading what is written on here.  it makes me want to cry when i see the constant "us" and "them"-ing going on. 

this constant apparent assumption that the "other" or the "infidel" is somehow worthless.

who is teaching this?  is this really in the Koran?  can anyone really believe it?

i see it again and again here.   

fortunately, not everyone in the world tends to think in this way - the Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains tend to have reverence and respect for God and all life.  but the Abrahamic religions are filled with violence and hatred it sometimes seems to me, the Jewish, Christian and Muslim people of the Old Testament have so much hate and constant violence in their past and present (and presumably future) --- is this what is really taught in the Old Testament and the Koran?  I have read  parts of the New Testament and I appreciated what I have read but I have not read the Old Testament --- is it there that this idea of being "chosen" or "separate" or "against other men and enemies", this whole "us and them"-ing is propagated? 

i hope dan sims doesn't go that way.     he seems such a loving person -

everything that promotes division is always used for evil ends as far as i can see.  whether it be Hitler's policies against the Jews or Slavery or whatever evil it might take shape as --- anything that tries to carve a line and say someone is worth less than another always has EVIL as its end result, i feel.

[tariqibn]

Mister do not take what some "muslims" say as consenus to what all muslims beleve.. I have told that man that his method of dwah is extreme. . he thinks to move to a non muslim country to give dawah and hope that the non muslim lands become muslim by his presence.. what he fails to realiaze is that this is not the way muslims behave.. we do not "clean up the neighbors houses while our homes continue to stay flith".. we have a duty first and foremost and that is in our homelands.. We must be working to get over there as soon as possible in whatever way possible and clean our homelands up first even if we were not born there...Any muslim that always wants to help the infidel before reliazing how lost his ownself is first may relaize on the day of judgement that he was so worried about the infedle that the infedel was pardoned by allah and the "muslim" was thrown into the fire because he forgot to first check his heart before checking anothers...

If they want to give us plane tickets then tell them to not waste time.. we are waiting...

[curioustraveler]

waiting for charity from non muslims... you'll be awhile.